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Systema : martial art for my russian spetsnaz


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#1 Riposte

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 02:37 AM

long time ago, in a distant galaxy... mmmm nope.

 

Long time ago, i have ask if someone have an idea about systema martial art for Dark champions.

 

Since i have try it for one year. I am a martial art practionner since long time...but i have all pain in the world to describe it...

 

Not like sambo, not like commando training, not like jiujitsu, kind of aïkido with more strike than joint lock...and weapon use...

 

As some spestnaz use it, if someone have a good advice i take it...



#2 Hyper-Man

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 12:41 PM

HSMA6e page 77 shows:

Russian martial arts: In addition to Sambo, Russian martial arts include Systema (a martial art taught to Russian special forces, similar to Commando Training),

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systema

Unarmed techniques: Chokehold, Clinch, Elbow strike, Headbutt, Hold, Kick, Knee strike, Joint lock, Punch, Sweep, Takedown, Throw.

 

 

Based on this information I would model it in HERO by starting with Commando Training and change accordingly. 

 

Remember that HERO combat maneuvers are just the mechanics.  A Commando Training Block may look completely different than a Systema Block.

 

HM


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#3 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 09:34 AM

I'll need to google a few videos buy as HM said (and took me awhile to comprehend) the mechanics can be the same the special effect is different.
The main object of the game is for the players and the GM to have fun. Champions 3rd ed. Pg 130

#4 Spence

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 01:21 PM

The HERO System Martial Arts book would answer your question.  They pre-built a long list of real world styles as well as several fictional ones.  Just seeing how they approached the various builds would go a long way.  

 


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#5 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 06:40 PM

Riposte I looked at a Youtube video that featured several stylist so bear that in mind. There seemed to be some sort of punch thats not your typical brute punch but more of a slap. So I would look at as you said Aikido for most maneuvers.

The slap punch (please tell me what name it is called) coukd be defined as I saw it 3 ways.

1) renamed Atemi strike. Atemi does NND damage however it is at 2D6 so wont knock out even a regular person.

2) renamed Offensive strike. Here the +4D6 will be closer to doing a knock out on a regular person. (Afair, Aikdo doesn't have the offensive strike but you can add any maneuvers as needed to reflect your style.)

3) Or a custom build especialy if you have UMA 5th with power modifiers attached to a martial skill.
The main object of the game is for the players and the GM to have fun. Champions 3rd ed. Pg 130

#6 bubba smith

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 12:36 PM

I THINK that systema is covered in the martial arts book but i'm not sure


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#7 Riposte

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 01:11 PM

well Systema is not covered in Ultimate martial art. The strike in Systema is not a Nnd, offensive, yes why not. There is no real throw, most are kind of takedown. All part of the body are used to strike. Yes, even by practising it and having UMA i dont find a right way to describe it... Poor me, and thanks for your answsers



#8 pinecone

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 03:50 PM

Yeah, UMA does not have anything...but it is not well known, outside of Russia anyway. I saw a training video back in the day, and it looked like a unique sort of Jiujitsu...some, well several styles use strikes...

 

 

 

Systema: Defensive Strike, Escape, Defensive Block, Take Down, Advanced users can take more moves....Breakfall required as well..?


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#9 Hyper-Man

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 05:10 PM

I THINK that systema is covered in the martial arts book but i'm not sure

 

 

Yeah, UMA does not have anything...but it is not well known, outside of Russia anyway. I saw a training video back in the day, and it looked like a unique sort of Jiujitsu...some, well several styles use strikes...

 

 

 

Systema: Defensive Strike, Escape, Defensive Block, Take Down, Advanced users can take more moves....Breakfall required as well..?

 

The section I quoted earlier was part of the following section of Hero System Martial Arts 6e starting on page 76:

 

OTHER STYLES
The following styles are ones the author came across while researching this book, but for which he lacked sufficient information to create a complete description. Players can do their own research or construct their own versions of these styles if they wish.

 

 

:)

HM


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#10 IndianaJoe3

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 06:01 PM

HSMA has at least three different styles of military martial arts: "Commando Training," Krav Maga (Israeli), and the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (USA). (I may have overlooked others.) If I was building Systema, I would start with one of those.


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#11 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 04:17 AM

Riposte how would describe the punch then? Then perhaps we can get a better maneuver. However, (and I've been one) due to the system, a lot of special effects are only described by a small amount of mechanical maneuvers. Oh and we can always try to build the punch through powers too.
The main object of the game is for the players and the GM to have fun. Champions 3rd ed. Pg 130

#12 massey

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Posted 20 July 2016 - 11:16 AM

I once read a description of Krav Maga that said its entire purpose was to disable your opponent long enough so that you can get to your gun.  My guess is that Systema or any other "special forces" type martial art would be the same.  If you're training military personnel, you want it to be something that can be learned quickly and easily.  It wouldn't use a lot of flashy maneuvers, just something quick and dirty and effective.

 

Knowing next to nothing about the art itself, I'd give it something like this:

 

Chokehold -- -2 OCV, +0 DCV, 2D6 NND, Grab

Disarming Throw -- +0 OCV +0 DCV., +1D6 to take away weapon, target falls

Grappling Block -- +1 OCV +1 DCV, grab one limb, block

Joint Break -- -1 OCV -2 DCV. grab one limb, 1/2D6 HKA

Martial Strike -- +0 OCV +2 DCV, +2D6

Takedown -- +1 OCV +0 DCV, +0D6, target falls

 

You're not gonna get the big, powerful strikes that you'd get from Tae Kwon Do or any of the other flashy striking arts.  It's not that type of martial art.  I just pulled a bunch of combo moves from Hero Designer, moves that do more than one thing at a time.  So most everything does a little bit of damage in addition to letting you grab somebody or put them on the ground.  If you're fighting somebody of equal Dex and Spd, that's a big advantage.  It gives you more control over the fight.  And remember, your goal isn't to out-kick the karate guy, it's to break his hand so you can go get your gun off the ground and shoot him.



#13 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 04:27 AM

I saw that some were calling the systema punch a ballistic punch. (I wouldn't mind to take a seminar sometime in RL about it.) It seems though that they only focus on hitting the Solar Plexus with it. Which isn't bad but you can't hit 100% there all the time in RL. Yes getting hit in the Solar Plexus hurts been hit there several times and even an Axe kick to the neck too.
The main object of the game is for the players and the GM to have fun. Champions 3rd ed. Pg 130

#14 Manic Typist

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:24 PM

I saw that some were calling the systema punch a ballistic punch. (I wouldn't mind to take a seminar sometime in RL about it.) It seems though that they only focus on hitting the Solar Plexus with it. Which isn't bad but you can't hit 100% there all the time in RL. Yes getting hit in the Solar Plexus hurts been hit there several times and even an Axe kick to the neck too.


........what RL circumstances led to you getting an AXE KICK to the neck?!?
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#15 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 21 July 2016 - 08:39 PM

Sparring, I zigged when I should've zagged! Luckily I only caught his calf not the ball of the foot.
The main object of the game is for the players and the GM to have fun. Champions 3rd ed. Pg 130

#16 Riposte

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 03:51 PM

I may have find a solution: one of my friend is long time (7 years old) practitionner of systema) and also a rpg player. I have made him read the rules, and we will work together to construct systema :)


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#17 Dino

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 08:39 PM

Here's a write up I did a while back.

Attached Files


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#18 Hyper-Man

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 09:14 PM

Here's a write up I did a while back.

 

Nice.

 

And for those without Hero Designer (edit) here is Dino's build below.

 

VAL    CHA    Cost    Roll    Notes
10    STR    0    11-    HTH Damage 2d6  END [1]
Characteristics Total: 0

Cost    Martial Arts
    Kadochnikov's Systema
5    1)  Grappling Block:  1/2 Phase, +1 OCV, +1 DCV, Grab One Limb, Block
4    2)  Counterstrike:  1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6 Strike, Must Follow Block
3    3)  Grappling Throw:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6 Strike; Target Falls; Must Follow Grab
5    4)  Disarming Throw:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab Weapon, 15 STR to take weapon away; Target Falls
4    5)  Root:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 25 STR to resist Shove; Block, Abort
4    6)  Shove:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 25 STR to Shove
1    7)  Weapon Element:  Blades
1    8)  Weapon Element:  Clubs
1    9)  Weapon Element:  Staffs
1    10) Weapon Element:  Clubs (Chair)
1    11) Weapon Element:  Chain & Rope Weapons (Belt)
1    12) Weapon Element:  Assault Rifles/LMGs (as melee weapon)

Martial Arts Total: 31
 

:)

HM


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#19 bubba smith

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 07:59 AM

looks good here


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#20 Riposte

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Posted 08 August 2016 - 01:49 PM

fine, when i will have the return of my friend i will share with you!