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Power copier sanity check


dialNforNinja

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So, the concept is a character who can copy other powers permanently, like El-Hazard's Ifurita or Sharingan users from Naruto. The best fit on the face of it seems to be a self-Transform (Or Multiform as suggested in Champions Complete, but Multiform as described doesn't fit what's being done the way Transform does) limited to powers being used on the character or by someone they're closely observing for things that don't have such effects, then adding a linked VPP with the "theme" that it can only be used to store powers currently being copied, "healing" the original Transform in the process.

 

Some kind of skill check should probably be involved, at minimum to confirm the power is learned pemranently vs. being lost of the VPP points allocated to it are shifted to something else, possibly to store it in the VPP at all rather than occupying the Transform powers's points/etc.

 

Does this sound reasonable to you? Too expensive or too cheap? Too much book keeping? Is just the VPP enough, maybe with a linked sensory power instead of Transform? It's a nifty concept and a fairly common archetype in fiction, but I'm not sure how it would work out in play.

 

I'm working from Champions Complete only, due to a general scarcity of budget for RPG books.

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So, the concept is a character who can copy other powers permanently, like El-Hazard's Ifurita or Sharingan users from Naruto.

I am sorry, but that set of prowers is literally not balanceable. Over time such a character would amass the equivalent of unlimited points. And points are the primary limiter that keeps characters in line.

 

If this was for a villain, then you could jsut keep increasing his powerlevel (total character points).

 

If the abilities (like Jutsu) are build in a certain way that does not cost character points, it might be manageable.

But as a player character it seems plain impossible.

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Champions Powers has Mimicking in the Miscellaneous Powers chapter.  It's a Variable Power Pool that lets you mimic the powers of anyone you touch.  One of the variants lets you manifest the powers of anyone you've ever touched at any point in the past.

 

Mimic Memory II: The character can manifest the powers of anyone he’s ever touched, regardless of how long ago it was.
Variable Power Pool (Mimic Pool), 200 Pool + 200 Control Cost; Requires Successful HTH Attack Roll And Skin Contact To First Acquire A Target’s Powers (-¼), Only To Create Powers Copied From Persons Touched (-¼), Powers May Only Be As Powerful As Targets’ Powers (-½). Total cost: 200 + 50 = 250 points.

 

You would need to keep track of what characters had been copied in the past, which would determine which powers could be created.

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I'm not sure I understand what you're asking for, exactly.  I'm not an anime guy, so your references don't really help me.  But I'll try to help out where I can.

 

Generally, you can't use Transform on yourself.  So you can probably forget about that part.

 

Normally, power duplicators are very expensive.  A Cosmic VPP works, because you can literally use any power you want, whenever you want.  Put a -1/4 limitation on it (no more, because of how easy it is to acquire new powers), "only powers he has duplicated".  Yeah, initially you won't be able to use that many powers, but very soon you'll have met a ton of different characters.

 

I'll suggest two other possibilities, if a Cosmic VPP is too expensive.  One is Multiform, the other is Multipower.

 

As I said, I have no idea who your examples were.  I don't know what they can do, how quickly they can duplicate something, how often, etc.  But assuming these guys aren't Super Adaptoid level, you don't need a Cosmic VPP to mimic powers.  Here are two cheaper ways, if you have a cooperative GM.

 

Multiform:

Buy a standard Mutliform, with maybe x8 or x16 forms.  Your standard form is you, with all your normal abilities.  Your first multiform is you, with all your normal abilities, PLUS whatever power you duplicated the first time.  Your second multiform is you, with all your normal abilities, plus whatever power you duplicated the second time.  And so on, and so forth, up through multiform #16.  The key is, you make a deal with the GM.  You are going to wait to define each multiform, until you've encountered a character with a power you choose to duplicate.  So at the very beginning of the game, you basically don't have any extra powers.  Your multiform is inaccessible.  Then you meet somebody with a cool ability, you do whatever thing you do when you mimic it, and then you write it down on your multiform character sheet.  Now that one becomes available to use.  It's just you, plus that new power.  And you keep going every time you copy a power.  If your GM is okay with it, you might be able to copy a power even during combat (quickly jotting down the power on your next blank multiform sheet).  Eventually, you'll have duplicated enough powers that you need to buy additional multiform multiples.  So from x8 forms to x16 forms (5 points), or from x16 to x32 (another 5 points), or from x32 to x64.  You'll use your XP for that.  Eventually though, you'll have enough spare multiforms that you don't really have to spend any more points on it.

 

Option 2: Multipower:

Depending upon exactly how you envision the character functioning, you could do it with a Multipower too.  I would suggest the same thing.  Buy a big Multipower, save some points, and just add in new powers when you duplicate something.  So you've got a 60 point Multipower (or however much), and you've got 12 points left over.  That's enough for 2 fixed slots at full power.  And you go along and you fight bad guys, and eventually you see somebody with a super cool move or power that you want to learn.  And so you spend the points to add that power to your Multipower.  This way has the disadvantage that if you're out of XP, you can't learn a new move.  It has the advantage that it's covered perfectly by the rules.  It's just your justification for how you spend your XP.

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Well that's just about exactly what I had in mind, thanks! I've had Champions Powers on my wish list for a while, but it's definitely getting an extra star or two now. Hero System is super versatile, but can be just as confusing without lots of examples to work back from.

The big issue here was saying "permanent" and mentioning the Sharingan. If the Character would just keep adding powers (jutsu), he would end up with more points then he should be able too.

 

In the end there is one surefire way to get any power done:

Get the full game effect. The limit it down from there to the intened game effect.

The full effect of any mimiker is "having every power in the book/conceivable". Limited down to "only if you got a sample to work from".

And "every power conceivable" is indeed the VPP's whole purpose.

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I don't follow anime so I have no idea who those characters are, but when I am bringing in an idea from another source into any game I intend to run, I place the needs of my game over staying true to the source.  If I want to introduce Superman, Iron Man, and the Brady Bunch into my campaign world, I would make them fit the needs of my universe and not the universes they were initially created in, and I think a PC like you describe would probably get too powerful too quick and would want something to slow him down.

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Echo still has the same limits on Active Points etc. as everyone else, and is either using the VPP for stat boosts or not very impressive in them due to the cost of it. Having three different flavors of 10d6 Blast doesn't mean much in mechanical effects, and needing a couple of skill checks to a.) keep a copied effect outside close proximity to the original user and later b.) memorize/record the pattern to bring back later after switching to something else will still put a damper on collecting 'em all. He's the floating team mate who fills in for whoever doesn't make it to the session or whatever role is getting hit especially hard by the enemies, basically. I'm one of those freaks who likes playing support characters, so aside from my standard minimal "be prepared to stomp undead so the GM never sends them at us" measures being able to act as understudy for any of the others should suit to a T. That's the theory anyway ;) and at least I shouldn't get bored after running through all the available power tricks like I did with my last character.

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Well that's just about exactly what I had in mind, thanks! I've had Champions Powers on my wish list for a while, but it's definitely getting an extra star or two now. Hero System is super versatile, but can be just as confusing without lots of examples to work back from.

I found out the same thing too which is why I have a ton of books. Some are more just for the examples.

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