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Air of Authority


Surrealone

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We know it when we see it -- confidence exuded by someone who is in a position of power or respect -- the kind of confidence that gets people to follow or obey without question because it's palpable.

 

I'd like to turn this into a power that increases with exposure.  I see it as different from raw PRE because for PRE to have an effect over a lengthy span of time the person with the air of authority would need to PRE attack a lot ... or steadily use PRE-based interaction skills.  I see an air of authority as something that would influence those PRE-based interaction skills in positive ways for the individual possessing the air, but I also see it as something unto itself -- that goes beyond PRE and interactions...

 

My initial thought is for a low-dice (i.e. 1d6 or even 1 pip), 0-END, fully invisible, continuous, uncontrolled, cumulative (with increased maximum), AoE Mind Control that has limited range, requires being in the physical presence of the person with the air of authority (not necessarily eye contact, but similar).  With enough steady contact (i.e. from say, a persona guard), the person with the air of authority should absolutely be able to use this to ask the ridiculous of the person ... and be likely to get it. 

 

Another thought would be for a low-dice, 0-END, fully invisible, continuous, uncontrolled, AoE, ranged EGO Drain that has the same requirements and limitations as above .... with an additional limitation (probably a -1?) that the lowered EGO only applies to decisions/thinking pertaining to the person with the air of authority, and that for everyone else EGO is considered its usual/normal level.

 

 

I'm leaning strongly toward the latter since the AoE will achieve the same result as the former while defining the effective range the best ... with none of the tomfoolery associated with EGO combat in what should mostly be non-combat scenarios.  That said, are these overly-complicated?  Is continuous, uncontrolled overkill and should I consider Damage Over Time?  Basically, do you see an easier or more appropriate way to achieve the desired effect?

 

I'd love to see your build thinking....

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Is thier effective Presence Increasing? Or is the threshold for the effect getting lower?

Aren't bolstering Presence Attacks affected by relative position?

How exactly is the "Air of Authority" power different from the mundane "he is our leader" effect?

 

Does the power even need to be modelled in the first place?

Mind Control, Presence attacks and Social Interaction Skills happen in the timeframes of Combats.

The timeframes you mentioned are outside even the scope of most adventures.

All you really have here is a special effect for having "fanatically loyal" henchmen/followers.

 

If this is supposed to be used against the heroes (the villain sneaks himself into the group during a session), I do not see how the heroes would be able to notice it.

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Why not a variant of Striking Appearance? It's limited PRE, so Limit it based on the extent of positive contact you envision the bonus to PRE effects requiring.

5ER game -- and the GM is resistant to adopting 6E because he erroneously thinks it'll be a lot of work and added complexity when, in reality, the hard work is on us, the players, to xlate our characters ... and his work is easy due to a primer I prepared.

 

 

Sounds almost like a Perk with an ever-growing scope of influence.

I like this thinking because it's outside the box.  However, I would expect a Perk to function only with people in the right setting... whereas I envision Air of Authority being intrinsic to the character and working with anyone/everyone.

 

 

Is thier effective Presence Increasing? Or is the threshold for the effect getting lower?

Aren't bolstering Presence Attacks affected by relative position?

How exactly is the "Air of Authority" power different from the mundane "he is our leader" effect?

 

Does the power even need to be modelled in the first place?

Mind Control, Presence attacks and Social Interaction Skills happen in the timeframes of Combats.

The timeframes you mentioned are outside even the scope of most adventures.

All you really have here is a special effect for having "fanatically loyal" henchmen/followers.

 

If this is supposed to be used against the heroes (the villain sneaks himself into the group during a session), I do not see how the heroes would be able to notice it.

 

To help clarify my thinking, an example should help.  A king in a fantasy game receives deference everywhere the concept of kingship/royalty is understood.  Take that king and put him in the backwoods of a foreign land that is tribal with no concept of royalty -- and he's likely treated as a trespasser, not a king.  I envision Air of Authority as something that would help overcome that -- meaning the power would, after exposure, result in recognition that this person was some kind of leader who should be heeded. 

 

​The campaign is futuristic by the way ... with feudal aspects in space (think Dune-like), hence the royalty example.  It's also got aspects of Whitewolf Vampires in terms of some racial templates and their abilities.  For those familiar with the concept, the Ventrue Presence ability named Awe very closely resembles what I'm after ... only it's intrinsic and 'on' whenever the character is awake ... and it takes exposure-based build-up to function.

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But if I'm not mistaken, the Vampiric Discipline of Awe is something the vampire has to activate with blood points, and only works with people in fairly close proximity. That sort of power is very much a PRE sort of thing in my view. Or maybe Mind Control. I think in order to have a wider, more persistent effect, a vampire in the WoD needs to have a much higher level of Presence, the kind Methuselahs have, for instance.

 

I might even argue that having a very high PRE brings with it an intrinsic, passive benefit of this Air of Authority you are talking about.

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I suppose I failed to properly convey that I envision the -effect- as similar to Awe ... not how it's used, paid for, directed, etc. -- only the effect of use.  I used that example because Awe can be used on henchmen and foes, alike ... which is what I was trying to illustrate.

 

The character already has a high PRE for the point level of the game -- and very solid interaction skills -- and even appropriate perks (example: upper nobility).  Air of Authority is something I see as an unnatural ability to further influence interactions in a way that predisposes people toward the character, much as a thrall is predisposed toward an elder.  Normally I'd think a PRE Drain would make the most sense from an interaction standpoint, but then we get into obeying commands and EGO drain or Mind Control seem to make more sense.

 

So far I think a Drain with limitations works best, but before I try to model it I wanted to see what others had to say.  Transform has a level of permanence I'm trying to avoid;  this should be something that's very strong when in the immediate presence of the character for an extended period ... that quickly fades with appropriate distance ... without leaving a lingering "golly, I was dominated" kind of afterthought.  It should be subtle...

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Sounds more like an AoE Mind Control than anything else. The problem with Drains is that they make the target vulnerable to others who don't have Air of Authority, and I get the sense that the intent is for the effect to only work to the benefit of the character with the power.

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Which can be easily covered with a limitation "Only Affects vs My Character" (-1)

How limiting is it that your commands will be more likely to be obeyed than commands of your opponents? Does it really make the power only half as useful?

 

I think "I only want my character's PRE based effects to be harder to resist" is an effect that reasons back to "my character's PRE based effects are enhanced" rather than "everyone else's defenses against my character's PRE based attacks are reduced".

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Grailknight:
I'm still working this one over in my mind -- primarily because my GM is really weird about Transformation being used on others.  ​What level of 5ER Transform would you suggest?

 

 

Hugh:
I believe it's a false equivalency to state that one's PRE-based effects are enhanced when the actual game mechanic entails a reduction in everyone else's defenses against one's PRE-based attacks.  The mechanics are, in fact, different and distinct.

As for why it's a limitation that the effect only influences outcomes for the character with Air of Authority (and not everyone) if something like a drain is used?  Chain of command approaches utilizing subordinates and delegation to subordinates (which are VERY common for authority figures to use) basically don't work with the same effect as if the authority figure had issued a command or suggested something, himself -- on individuals who have had the requisite proximity and exposure time for Air of Authority to work on them.

​i.e. The command, suggestion, etc. must come directly from the authority figure and not from a subordinate/delegate.

​Examples:

  • The authority figure is silenced -- and a subordinate or teammate picks up where he left off -- but does not get the benefit of the Air of Authority.
  • The authority figure commands minion A (in personal presence) to convey an order to minion B (located somewhere else, having recently departed the presence of the authority figure).  Both minions A and B are affected by Air of Authority, and Air of Authority has a positive effect on the order given directly to A ... but due to the limitation Air of Authority would have no impact on the order conveyed to B via A because the order came from A (and not directly from the character with Air of Authority).

The last of these examples is probably the best example of why a limitation makes sense.  If Air of Authority impacts multiple minions or opponents, it does so with no delegation that leverages Air of Authority's effects being possible by the authority figure -- he only gets the influence of the power himself -- which severely limits its scope/reach given how often authority figures rely on delegates/subordinates to carry out their biddings.

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The last of these examples is probably the best example of why a limitation makes sense.  If Air of Authority impacts multiple minions or opponents, it does so with no delegation that leverages Air of Authority's effects being possible by the authority figure -- he only gets the influence of the power himself -- which severely limits its scope/reach given how often authority figures rely on delegates/subordinates to carry out their biddings.

I agree with both you and Hugh, somewhat. I would say the limitation would be -1/2, affects the character about 1/3 of the time. Most of the time it will either not affect you or even be to your benefit that enemies cannot order people about easily. You could probably even argue for -1/4, but I think -1/2 is sufficient.

 

- E

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Which can be easily covered with a limitation "Only Affects vs My Character" (-1)

True. However, one must ask if a reduced EGO, with everything that entails, is really the desired effect. I mean, it's not like the target's willpower is reduced, it's just that they have this sudden and uncontrollable admiration for, and willingness to obey, the leader. If said leader also had Mental Illusions or Telepathy, it would not fit the concept as I understand it for the target to be more vulnerable to those EGO-based attacks, and yet he would be because of the EGO Drain.

 

That's why it feels more like a Mind Control with a command something along the lines of, "Treat me like a (your) cult leader."

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eepjr24:
​I agree that it's worth something.  -1 is probably too strong and -1/4 is probably too wimpy, so I tend to agree with your -1/2.

 

zslane:
The authority figure -is- a budding mentalist, so I should probably think about how Air of Authority would work with future use of Mind Control.  Giving it some thought, I feel that a Mind Control would/should be that much stronger if the authority figure used it on someone who was already affected by Air of Authority. I hadn't really given this any thought until you brought it up, but it would make sense...

massey:
If you see a way to build it with PRE, I'd love to see a build example, because one's eluding me.  Key to this is that I stumble with PRE when I try to capture the build-up/exposure time requirement, the fade aspect when someone leaves the authority figure's immediate area, and the inability for the power to work across teleconferences or through subordinates. I'm also not sure if more PRE will let the authority figure successfully suggest adherence to somewhat ridiculous ideas (unless, of course, a 3 is dropped) -- whereas Mind Control, EGO that is Drained to 0, and/or Transform to add Psych Lims will. 

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I'm actually seeing this as a PRE Aid situation with a slow increase time and also a slow fade rate, but the Aided PRE only affects those who have been around the character as the Aid builds. As time goes on, the character's PRE increases, which also gets around having to deal with Power Defense and Mental Defense that a Drain would have to deal with.

 

A different Aid ability could also be used to invest a portion of their authority in key followers, since the leader can't be everywhere at once. That Aid could further be combined with a Mind Control effect for loyalty and obedience to the leader.

 

These two Aid abilities could get quite a group of followers going without actually investing in Followers as a Perk.

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If you want it to "just work", go the Mind Control Route.

It is indeed the simplest approach for the effect you aimed for.

Of course the big issue will be maximum effect, wich requires either a bit more base power or a lot of advantages. As a GM I would be very carefull about a player applying lots of advantages to 1-10 Points of Base Power. So better do not skimp on the base pwoer.

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massey:

If you see a way to build it with PRE, I'd love to see a build example, because one's eluding me.  Key to this is that I stumble with PRE when I try to capture the build-up/exposure time requirement, the fade aspect when someone leaves the authority figure's immediate area, and the inability for the power to work across teleconferences or through subordinates. I'm also not sure if more PRE will let the authority figure successfully suggest adherence to somewhat ridiculous ideas (unless, of course, a 3 is dropped) -- whereas Mind Control, EGO that is Drained to 0, and/or Transform to add Psych Lims will. 

 

All those differences you described are things that make the ability worse.  Those can be handled with limitations.  PRE does everything you want already.  All you have to do is limit it.

 

Overwhelming Aura of Power

+50 PRE

requires full turn of exposure before activating (-1/2)

only when in immediate presence (i.e., not over phone, etc) (-1/4)

 

I totally do not see how that meets the request without a TON of GM hand waving.

 

How does it not?  With a PRE attack at +30, people will do almost anything for you.

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I believe it's a false equivalency to state that one's PRE-based effects are enhanced when the actual game mechanic entails a reduction in everyone else's defenses against one's PRE-based attacks.  The mechanics are, in fact, different and distinct.

Selection of appropriate mechanics requires reasoning from effect. The effect you suggest is that the character with the Aura, and only that character, is able to effectively influence other targeted characters. That sounds more like an ability the Aura character uses to influence others (whether PRE or Mind Control) and not a Draining or other reduction of defensive abilities of the target(s), limited to only be reduced for this one guy's abilities.

 

I am thinking a form of Cumulative mind control, probably with some Extra Time, is the best representation. I am also thinking, from the GM perspective, that a character who gradually takes over complete control of anyone he's able to spend significant time with may be problematic in-game.

 

As for why it's a limitation that the effect only influences outcomes for the character with Air of Authority (and not everyone) if something like a drain is used?  Chain of command approaches utilizing subordinates and delegation to subordinates (which are VERY common for authority figures to use) basically don't work with the same effect as if the authority figure had issued a command or suggested something, himself -- on individuals who have had the requisite proximity and exposure time for Air of Authority to work on them.

 

​i.e. The command, suggestion, etc. must come directly from the authority figure and not from a subordinate/delegate.

 

​Examples:

  • The authority figure is silenced -- and a subordinate or teammate picks up where he left off -- but does not get the benefit of the Air of Authority.
  • The authority figure commands minion A (in personal presence) to convey an order to minion B (located somewhere else, having recently departed the presence of the authority figure).  Both minions A and B are affected by Air of Authority, and Air of Authority has a positive effect on the order given directly to A ... but due to the limitation Air of Authority would have no impact on the order conveyed to B via A because the order came from A (and not directly from the character with Air of Authority).
The last of these examples is probably the best example of why a limitation makes sense.  If Air of Authority impacts multiple minions or opponents, it does so with no delegation that leverages Air of Authority's effects being possible by the authority figure -- he only gets the influence of the power himself -- which severely limits its scope/reach given how often authority figures rely on delegates/subordinates to carry out their biddings.

 

You miss the potential that someone opposes your character's efforts. Without "only reduced for my powers", the minion is susceptible to contradictory commands from other characters. Your "limitation" has the advantage of removing the ability of your opponents to also take advantage of those reduced abilities. Make the ability an attack (PRE, Mind Control, whatever) of your character, and that issue goes away, as you are not actually reducing their defenses. And, practically, if no one else can take advantage of it, it's tough to see how the target's defenses have been lowered, rather than having been breached.

 

The authority figure -is- a budding mentalist, so I should probably think about how Air of Authority would work with future use of Mind Control.  Giving it some thought, I feel that a Mind Control would/should be that much stronger if the authority figure used it on someone who was already affected by Air of Authority. I hadn't really given this any thought until you brought it up, but it would make sense...

It seems like an affected target has already been PRE attacked, or Mind Controlled, to make him more willing to follow orders of the Air of Authority character. That in itself enhances Mind Control.

 

If you see a way to build it with PRE, I'd love to see a build example, because one's eluding me.  Key to this is that I stumble with PRE when I try to capture the build-up/exposure time requirement, the fade aspect when someone leaves the authority figure's immediate area, and the inability for the power to work across teleconferences or through subordinates. I'm also not sure if more PRE will let the authority figure successfully suggest adherence to somewhat ridiculous ideas (unless, of course, a 3 is dropped) -- whereas Mind Control, EGO that is Drained to 0, and/or Transform to add Psych Lims will.

OK, let's break it down:

 

PRE, +X

 

build-up/exposure time requirement - only works after interacting with the other character(s) for at least Y time (I'd price this as a variation of Extra Time, only to Activate). You could apply higher times to each added level of PRE, if desired, so +10 PRE requires only a few minutes, +20 requires a couple of hours, and +30 requires a week.

 

Not over teleconference or via others - limited Range.

 

The fade aspect reflects the need to reactivate the PRE after the target leaves the area/range for a while.

 

IOW, the limitations are the actual limits on the ability, priced based on the extent to which they reduce the utility of the PRE, or of the Mind Control.

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This does showcase a system weakness. The inability to model long term mental effects. It does temporary effects well, but the effects of a "Charismatic person" ie a Steve Jobs, or an Adolph Hitler aren't handled at all.

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Steve Jobs and Adolph Hitler had high PRE and various social Perks and Skills that they used effectively.

 

What the OP is talking about is a power that has to be actively turned on, and which is above and beyond what mere mortals can achieve with their sparkling personalities.

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