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In real life ceremonial magic systems there are rituals of self initiation.

This is to simulate that in a Fantasy or Urban Fantasy system where the Magus must go through an initiation ritual before they can use magic.

 

The ritual below is an example on how to simulate that.

 

 

Ritual of Awakening Thy Higher Self, also known as Invoking Thy Higher Self or The Ritual of Becoming

 

In a prepared area used to cast ceremonial magick this hour long ritual awakens the ability to sense and use magical energies. This ritual is cast during the full moon.

 

Create Effect: Base time 1 day per 10 AP, 1 LTE per 10 AP

 

Perk or Talent Mage    10 AP

Mage sight (detect Magic [no sense Group] , Discriminatory, ranged , sense) 17 AP

 

 

Other options:

 

Activates Mana stat  ( 2X EGO + 14  pts) = 7 AP

Activate Mana Recovery (INT/5 +EGO/5 + 3 pts)= 6AP

Arcane Defense, [functions as PD, ED, Ego, Power & flash defense against mystical or magic SFX]  (EGO/5 +2) = 10 AP (5AP per point)

Total 50AP 

 

Advantages: 

Reduced time to 1 hour (1 +3/4)  = 87 AP

 

Limitations

Requires Ceremonial Magic Skill -1 per 20                             -1/4

Requires a prepared sacred space  Focus OAF immobile     -2

Concentration throughout 0DCV                                                  -1

Gestures throughout                                                                      -1/2

Incantations throughout                                                                 -1/2

Window of opportunity , Only During the Full Moon                   -2

                                                                        Total Limitations:  -7 1/4 Real cost 12 pts

                                                                                                                                       8 LTE

                                                                                                 -4 to ceremonial magic roll  

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Of course a lot depends on what defines a mage and separates them from muggles in your game.

That will dictate what characteristic or capability you enchant our wouldbe mage with.

Probabilly should apply self only to that ritual. You might want to add the inherent advantage if you don't want suppress or dispell to turn your mage to normal.

 

The idea is you can have an enchant ritual using the Create Effect that a wouldbe mage can use to become one if you want that flavour in your game.

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Neat idea, but I'm not clear how you would use it in a game? Is this something that characters have to spend points on before they can buy spells? If so, 12 points is a pretty high buy-in. Or is it more of a narrative/story thing? IMX most PC spellcasters tend to start the game already knowing spells, so this would just be an interesting part of the character's backstory.

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Neat idea, but I'm not clear how you would use it in a game? Is this something that characters have to spend points on before they can buy spells? If so, 12 points is a pretty high buy-in. Or is it more of a narrative/story thing? IMX most PC spellcasters tend to start the game already knowing spells, so this would just be an interesting part of the character's backstory.

It could be worked down to smaller point level. That was  just a kitchen sink/proof of concept example.  I could probably tack on more thematic limitations.

My original version was a balanced package deal that had as one one of its conditions you had to successfully cast a ritual to create an endurance batter.

A ritual that would be reused.

 

I'm leery of giving a create effect for no points  you are right on twelve being high.

 

As I said you need to pattern it after whatever makes a mage a mage in a given system.

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I changed some costs and added a few limitations Got the kitchen sink version down to 4 or 5 points depending how you round.

Do you still round in players favour or use standard?

 

 

Ritual of Awakening Thy Higher Self, also known as Invoking Thy Higher Self or The Ritual of Becoming

 

In a prepared area used to cast ceremonial magick this difficult 2 hour long ritual awakens the ability to sense and use magical energies. This ritual is cast during the full moon.

 

Create Effect: Base time 1 day per 10 AP, 1 LTE per 10 AP

 

Talent Mage   Power Skill (magick)                                                                      3 AP

Mage sight (detect Magic [no sense Group] , Discriminatory, ranged , sense) 17 AP

 

 

Other options:

 

Activates Mana stat  ( 2X EGO +  2  pts) = 1 AP

Activate Mana Recovery (INT/5 +EGO/5 + 1 pts)= 2AP

Arcane Defense, [functions as PD, ED, Ego, Power & flash defense against mystical or magic SFX]  (EGO/5 +1) =  3 AP (3AP per point)

Total  26 AP 

 

Advantages: 

Reduced time  from 2 days to 2 hours (1 + 1/2)  =   39 AP

 

Limitations

Ritual( Requires 2 to cast, both must know spell, -3 to roll if single cast)     -1/4

Requires Ceremonial Magic Skill -1 per 10                                                  -1/2

Requires a prepared sacred space  Focus OAF immobile arrangement    -2 1/4

Concentration throughout 0DCV                                                                  -1

Gestures throughout                                                                                       -1/2

Incantations throughout                                                                                  -1/2

Window of opportunity , Only During the Full Moon                                     -2

                                                                        Total Limitations:  -8  Real cost  4 pts

                                                                                                                                       4 LTE

                                                                                                 -4  to ceremonial magic roll  (-7 if single cast)

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Total limitations you list is -7, not -8. You add one when you divide, which nets 4.875, which rounds to 5 (round using first decimal only, if it is 5 or under, round down).

 

It's nice ot have it statted out, but do you actually require every player who is a mage to know it? Or is it something that can be read from a book? Or cast by 2 local mages on someone else?

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Total limitations you list is -7, not -8. You add one when you divide, which nets 4.875, which rounds to 5 (round using first decimal only, if it is 5 or under, round down).

 

It's nice ot have it statted out, but do you actually require every player who is a mage to know it? Or is it something that can be read from a book? Or cast by 2 local mages on someone else?

  1. On the total limitations I thought you added 1+ Tota limitations. I may be misremembering or dealing with version ddifferences.
  2. I thought there was a rule to round in the player's favor. 
  3. I'm rusty

Like I said this the kitchen sink example . A lot depends on the magic system in question(ie what makes you a mage).

 

 

 

but do you actually require every player who is a mage to know it?

I was thinking about it.  But the thing is this is an enchantment (create effect) that uses a KS. By magick I mean non-enchantment spell work that takes less than an hour or day.

In one particular setting I'm looking at Mages are not quite human anymore. They have susceptibilities and vulnerabilities that mundanes do not. It is part of the price of having power. They are also noticed by forces that ignore normal humans. In that setting I don't really need the mana part. All spells  used endurance batteries that must be created via ritual.

 

But it is the mage sight pushing up the active cost. Could go with the weaker version. Could drop that to make it cheaper. Should mages have innate magesight is a good question.

 

But  this has got me thinking on a system where there are no spells, just tools the mages must enchant. They may or may not be usable long term( Charges or Batteries). It would have that ritualistic feel if done thru create effect which takes time and cost LTE.

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1. On the total limitations I thought you added 1+ Tota limitations. I may be misremembering or dealing with version ddifferences

You're correct, you're just saying it differently from the way the books do (regardless of edition). This is normally described as having -7 worth of Limitations; Real Cost is calculated as AP / (1 + Total Limitations). Adding the 1 in with the Total Limitations like you've done will get the same result; but it's contrary to the way it's normally written and risks confusion if someone else tries to add the +1 twice.

 

So yes add +1 to the Total Limitations when mathing, but don't include it in the value of the Total Limitations. Does that make sense? [5ER p281, 6e1 p365, CC p43]

 

2. I thought there was a rule to round in the player's favor.

Halves rule in the player's favor. Above .5 rounds up; below .5 rounds down normally. [5ER p7, 6e1 p12, CC p10]

 

3. I'm rusty

;) No worries - that's what we're here for.

 

 

Tho I'm still not clear on the purpose of this ritual in gameplay. If you want a character to have, say, Magesight then typically they just buy Magesight. If you want to narratively describe a ritual they went through to gain that sight, fine. But mechanically you wouldn't typically pay points for the ritual to get magesight and then pay points for the Magesight itself. And you certainly wouldn't tack all those Limitations onto the Magesight itself unless you want them to apply every time you use it.

 

Similarly if you want mage characters to have a Mana stat, they typically just pay for the stat - how they gained the stat is usually just handled as backstory, not as something on the character sheet. And again, as written it looks like the Limitations would apply whenever you used Mana, which I'm assuming is not what you intended.

 

As a non-magical analogy, if a player wants their character to have a 25 STR, the backstory might be that he spent years chained to the Wheel Of Pain. But I wouldn't write up the Wheel Of Pain as a years-long "ritual" and make the player pay points for that ritual before they could buy up their STR. Nor would I put Immobile OAF and Extra Time, 5+ Years on the STR itself.

 

Edited to add 5th ed page references - sorry.

Edited by bigdamnhero
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Another example: we could certainly stat out the cosmic radiation accident that gave the Fantastic Four their powers. But why would we want to? And we certainly wouldn't put it on their character sheets.

I get what you are saying. 

But as I said this is in part inspired by my musings on an urban fantasy game where there is distinction between muggles and mages. 

But almost any muggle can be a mage but there would be downsides to being a mage.

It is also an attempt to replicate a very real trope in ceremonial magick.

 

Addendum: My target group would appreciate the roleplay of going thru the initiation and consecrating tools.

But I get that most people would be unaware of those tropes

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Again: I have no problem with the concept conceptually or narratively. Initiation rituals are great - I've used them myself as plot devices. No worries there. My questions are entirely mechanical.

 

It seems to me you're conflating two different things here:

 

1) The ritual that turns a muggle into a mage, vs.

2) the powers a mage has after they complete the ritual.

 

The former is probably best modeled as some sort of Transform really, if you feel the need to stat it out in detail. Personally I'd just treat it as a plot device, write up how it works and what it does, and we all roleplay our way through it. I don't see how having the characters pay points for something they'll only use once adds anything to the experience.

 

For the latter, you just buy those elements: magesight, Mana stat, etc. You can make it a package deal (with or without variations) to simplify things, and maybe give the players a big XP dump to cover it or just handwave the point costs or whatever. But if you throw all those Limitations on those game elements themselves, then they apply every time the Character uses them, ie - Gestures, Incantations, Multiple casters etc every time you want to use your magesight. If that's not your intent, then you shouldn't build it this way.

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Here's kindof what I mean. The initiation ritual might look something like:

 

Ritual of Awakening Thy Higher Self:  Minor Transform 10d6 (standard effect: 30 points) (non-magical person into person with Mage package deal) (100 Active Points); Extra Time (2 Hours, -3), OAF Immobile (Prepared sacred space; Arrangement; -2 1/4), Window Of Opportunity (once per Month; Only During the Full Moon; -2), Requires A Ceremonial Magic Skill Roll (-1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Ritual (2 casters; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) [10 RP, 10 END]

 

Whether or not the characters need to pay points for this is your call - personally I don't see the point of it.

 

Either way, after completing the ritual the character gains the following:

 

           Mage Package Deal                                                                    

3         1)  Power:  Magick 11-                                                               

17      2)  Magesight, Discriminatory, Range, Sense                        0

0         3)  Mana Characteristic - Base:  (EGO x 2)                          0

2         4)  Additional Mana:  (per point) (2 Active Points)             0

0         5)  Arcane Defense - Base:  (EGO/5)                                      0

3         6)  Additional Arcane Defense:  (per point) (3 Active Points)          0

...etc

 

You can put Limitations on any of those if you want to, but that means the Limitations apply every time the ability is used, so exercise caution.

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My original process was a balanced package that required a differing enchantment (create END Battery) to be successfully completed to activate.

 

But I got to thinking if a muggle could enchant a mystic reservoir of power to become a mage, why couldn't the wouldbe Mage enchant himself into whatever makes you a mage?

This was a more proof of concept.

  • The ritual does not have self only 
  • Could be used by another on the wouldbe mage.
  • Doesn't have to have all the stuff I included
  • It should be cheap

 

I

t seems to me you're conflating two different things here:

 

1) The ritual that turns a muggle into a mage, vs.

2) the powers a mage has after they complete the ritua

 

If one is the result of the other that is not a conflation. You suggest a Transform. I just used an enchantment instead.

Transform has a reversal condition. I did not think that fit what I was trying to do.

One of the possible options to what I propose is to include inherent for whatever mage abilities you decide. so that you can't dispell it . But a transform could still remove it.

 

Maybe I'm off base But I was just looking possible options on doing things.

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If one is the result of the other that is not a conflation. You suggest a Transform. I just used an enchantment instead.

"Enchantment" and "create effect" aren't Hero System terms, so I'm still not sure exactly what you mean. But okay, there are probably plenty of other ways to build the ritual. My point is that the ritual that gives the characters Mage Powers is a separate build from those Mage Powers themselves - the latter results from the former, but they're not the same. Mushing them together like you have leads to confusion IMO and is not rules-legal as far as I can tell. But it's your game.

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"Enchantment" and "create effect" aren't Hero System terms, so I'm still not sure exactly what you mean. But okay, there are probably plenty of other ways to build the ritual. My point is that the ritual that gives the characters Mage Powers is a separate build from those Mage Powers themselves - the latter results from the former, but they're not the same. Mushing them together like you have leads to confusion IMO and is not rules-legal as far as I can tell. But it's your game.

Hows that different than doing it via transform? You still have to define the transformation.

 

I suspect you are unfamiliar with the Create effect, It goes back to FH 1st edition. Originally I hated it but it has grown on me.

It is one way to do in enchantment(create magic items,curses)  in Hero System.  By default it uses an existing power effect with all its modifiers as its base effect to which you add advantages and limitations not unlike differing Differing Modifiers on page 177 of the original 5th Edition Hero System.

 

The Create effect I'm using is from page 279 of 5th Edition Fantasy Hero, top of the second column.

 

A non-fantasy use would to use it to stat out Green Lanterns ability to create backup  power rings.

Or a nano tech seed that creates bases or vehicles.

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The thing is, you are using mechanics that most of us here are not going to be familiar with even if they do come from a version of Hero.

 

I don't feel qualified to analyze what you're doing, other than in general terms.

 

I will say though that if there is no explicit or implied "Self Only" Limitation at work - and I wouldn't necessarily think there would be - then you might consider a Conditional "Willing and Suitable Candidate" Limitation, or else a form of Side Effects, because if the initiate is not spiritually ripe for initiation, the ceremony could be of no effect or could have unpredictable effects. One who has been initiated is going to change in SOME say but it may not be ways looked for or desired.

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

 

The palindromedary notes that one who is unprepared for initiation could end up looking like an Ass (if possibly a Golden one - just ask Lucius.)

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The thing is, you are using mechanics that most of us here are not going to be familiar with even if they do come from a version of Hero.

 

I don't feel qualified to analyze what you're doing, other than in general terms.

So 6th FH edition did away Create as well as Independent? Then how do y'all create magic items?

In game that is.

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Hows that different than doing it via transform? You still have to define the transformation.

That's fine. I don't care how you define it. My point, as I've said repeatedly, is that defining the transformation is still separate from defining the powers the characters have once they've been transformed. What does "Magesight" et. al. actually look like on the player's character sheet once the ritual is all said and done? Does the character have to pay points for Magesight? Or do they get it for free for having completed the ritual?

 

I suspect you are unfamiliar with the Create effect, It goes back to FH 1st edition. Originally I hated it but it has grown on me.

It is one way to do in enchantment(create magic items,curses)  in Hero System.  By default it uses an existing power effect with all its modifiers as its base effect to which you add advantages and limitations not unlike differing Differing Modifiers on page 177 of the original 5th Edition Hero System.

 

The Create effect I'm using is from page 279 of 5th Edition Fantasy Hero, top of the second column.

Ah, see when you're using stuff that's not in the core rules it's helpful to note that up front. Yes, 6ed FH has the same optional system. I sortof get where you're going now. But the point of that system is to create items that are independent of the caster (Whether or not "Independent" is a specific Limitation.) It seems like you're using it to let a character give themselves powers, which frankly seems like a very munchkiney way to avoid having to pay full price for those powers.

 

But it's your game - you're obviously in love with this idea, so have fun with it.

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That's fine. I don't care how you define it. My point, as I've said repeatedly, is that defining the transformation is still separate from defining the powers the characters have once they've been transformed. What does "Magesight" et. al. actually look like on the player's character sheet once the ritual is all said and done? Does the character have to pay points for Magesight? Or do they get it for free for having completed the ritual?

 

Ah, see when you're using stuff that's not in the core rules it's helpful to note that up front. Yes, 6ed FH has the same optional system. I sortof get where you're going now. But the point of that system is to create items that are independent of the caster (Whether or not "Independent" is a specific Limitation.) It seems like you're using it to let a character give themselves powers, which frankly seems like a very munchkiney way to avoid having to pay full price for those powers.

 

But it's your game - you're obviously in love with this idea, so have fun with it.

 

  1. It has been in almost every edition FH since 1st, I think 4th didn't have it
  2. 6th seems to be moving away from the core rules concept with its X complete path
  3. It simulates a very common trope in magic
  4. depending on the magic system of the campaign it may be only imbuing a small perk or skill, remember it was just a proof of concept
  5. As written it could be used by a magus on a world be apprentice.
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That's fine. I don't care how you define it. My point, as I've said repeatedly, is that defining the transformation is still separate from defining the powers the characters have once they've been transformed. What does "Magesight" et. al. actually look like on the player's character sheet once the ritual is all said and done? Does the character have to pay points for Magesight? Or do they get it for free for having completed the ritual?

  1. Character doesn't have mage Sight unless you think all mages have Mage Sight in your magic system, again this was a proof of concept
  2. Like any Item done up this way the effects doesn't cost CP,  but the effect can be permanently lost with a dispell or suppress.

I would suggest adding  Inherent in the base effect so that whatever effects you want the person to have so it can only removed by transform.

But yes in any campaign that uses the Create effect to make Magic Items, Blessings or Curses targeting the land or an individual only pay CP for the Create X spell.

The Cost of the Item, Blessing, or Curse is time and LTE.

 

I could easily see a Gritty Urban Fantasy where there are no spells per se, but heavily limited rituals to create Items with mandatory limitations.

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  • 10 months later...

So the idea is that instead of enchanting an item or a place, you're enchanting a person, possibly yourself?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And some enchanted palindromedary

 

 

yes.

I'll buy that.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says I should ask how much it costs first.

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