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Memory Wiper/MIB


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#1 JohnnyAppleseed098

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 04:45 PM

For a weird conspiracy game I may or may not run in the near future (circumstances pending), I am wanting to make the memory wiper from the MIB series. Any idea how to do this?
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#2 Tom Cowan

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 06:56 PM

Mind Control 10d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Flash Defense (Sight); +0), Area Of Effect (8m Cone; +1/4) (62 Active Points); OAF (-1), Set Effect (Forget X time; -3/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, -1/2) for 19 points

maybe?



#3 cptpatriot

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Posted 21 August 2016 - 09:27 PM

I think the idea of erasing memory would better done as a Transform. Mind Control would eventually be remembered when the target makes their Breakout roll. Using AVAD to Flash Defense(Sight) does work well though.


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#4 L. Marcus

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 02:07 AM

Yes, Mental Transform.
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#5 IndianaJoe3

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 08:19 AM

It would also probably work vs EGO, not BODY.


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#6 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:24 AM

Transform probably the best, or a very long-term INT drain/Change Environment that only acts against memory-based INT rolls.


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#7 JohnnyAppleseed098

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 11:53 AM

Specially, what level of transform? I've got it down to Minor and Major, but I cannot decide which. 


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#8 wcw43921

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 12:01 AM

Memory would count as Major Transform--especially when you consider that the Neuralyzer was capable of wiping out decades of individual memory, and was designed to have a permanent effect.  Yeah, that's Major.


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#9 JohnnyAppleseed098

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 09:20 AM

Got it. Thanks. 


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#10 bigdamnhero

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 02:55 PM

There's an example write-up for Psionic Surgery on 6e1 p298, or 5ER 238. Just add OAF and you're off to the races.

 

Specially, what level of transform? I've got it down to Minor and Major, but I cannot decide which. 

I'd say it depends on how big and how significant the memory is. (6e1 p306 touches on this a bit - I *think* 5ed Ultimate Mentalist went into more detail but I don't have that book handy. Wiping out decades worth of memory might even count as Severe. OTOH, something as simple as "forget you saw me" might only be a Minor. So if you wanted something less over-the-top than the MiB version, you could make it a Multipower where maybe you have 8d6 of Minor Transform, but only 4d6 of Major Transform, which means erasing major memories takes longer, maybe burns up more charges, etc.

 

One way to look at it might be to compare changing the memory to how hard it would've been to change the actual event. Say you want someone to remember that the car they saw was black instead of red - changing the color of the car itself would've been a Cosmetic Physical Transform, so changing the memory is a Cosmetic Mental Transform. "That wasn't an alien spaceship you saw, it was just a helicopter" might be Minor. "You didn't see anything" might be Major or even Severe depending on how much they saw. That seems like it might drive some player creativity, as the wipe works better the more closely their implanted memory matches the original memory.

 

An alternate approach might be to base it on how much time is being wiped. Since the MiB neuralizer seemed to work equally well on the strong-minded and the weak-minded alike, assign "BODY" values to each step on the Time Chart. So wiping 1 Turn's worth of memory might be only 10 BODY, but wiping an hour's worth is 20 BODY. Depends on how you want it work narratively in the game and how infallible you want it to be.


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#11 JohnnyAppleseed098

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Posted 27 August 2016 - 08:35 AM

One way to look at it might be to compare changing the memory to how hard it would've been to change the actual event. Say you want someone to remember that the car they saw was black instead of red - changing the color of the car itself would've been a Cosmetic Physical Transform, so changing the memory is a Cosmetic Mental Transform. "That wasn't an alien spaceship you saw, it was just a helicopter" might be Minor. "You didn't see anything" might be Major or even Severe depending on how much they saw. That seems like it might drive some player creativity, as the wipe works better the more closely their implanted memory matches the original memory.

An alternate approach might be to base it on how much time is being wiped. Since the MiB neuralizer seemed to work equally well on the strong-minded and the weak-minded alike, assign "BODY" values to each step on the Time Chart. So wiping 1 Turn's worth of memory might be only 10 BODY, but wiping an hour's worth is 20 BODY. Depends on how you want it work narratively in the game and how infallible you want it to be.

I like both of these ideas. I believe that using them in conjunction is a great idea. The Multipower idea is great too, but I may increase the power level to maybe 8d6 Major, 12d6 Minor, 6d6 Severe. Cosmetic, really for me, isn't necessary.
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#12 Christopher

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 06:36 AM

APG 1 128 has rules for "Psionic Surgery" using Transform.

"Te primary form of Mental Transform is
Psionic Surgery — the ability to erase, change,
add to, or otherwise affect a person’s memories, personality, Psychological Complications,
Enraged/Berserks (and other psychologicallyoriented or psychosomatic Complications),
Mental Powers, and the like. Typically Psionic
Surgery is written up this way:

Psionic Surgery: Major Transform 4d6 (erase,
change, add to, or otherwise affect a person’s
mental “objects”; heals back normally), ACV
(uses OMCV against DMCV; +¼), AVAD
(Mental Defense; +0), Works Against EGO,
Not BODY (+¼) (60 Active Points); Limited
Target (mental “objects” in the minds of sentient
beings; -½), No Range (-½). Total cost: 30
points."

 

Generally Memory/Fact alteration requires a Major Transform, with one Cosmetic and Minor change thrown in (mostly for EGO+0 and EGO+10 Mental Illusion level of effect).

 

However one has to wonder how much of that is actuall memory alteration, and how much of it is plain mind control that reached the "target can not remember being controlled" level.


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#13 Nolgroth

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 03:13 PM

First off, I know how we love to build and model things in Hero so this is not a ding against the process. That said, I'm not sure I would model the MiB memory wiper. It is an absolute effect; without the special LS: Immune to memory wiper glasses, anybody looking at the bright light will have their memories replaced/removed. It is simply the way that the story plays out. Easy to do in MiB-land, because it is a movie that the scripter and director have ultimate control over.

 

For actually trying to build something like that, I would have to agree with Christopher that it is a mental power with the +20 Ego needed to reach the Target Cannot Remember level. I'm just torn whether it would be Mind Control or Mental Illusions. Either one works about the same as the other I suppose.


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#14 Hyper-Man

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 09:14 PM

I agree with Nolgroth and Christopher.

 

The MiB not having a reliable way to reverse the effects supports the Mental Power vs. Transform argument.  Absolute Effect seems appropriate until they show us a movie where someone is immune and say why. Until then it just a guessing game to decide the best 'mechanic'.  Did they ever use them on aliens or was it always vs. human targets?

 

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#15 sinanju

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 09:13 PM

Genuine MIB Neuralyzer

Category:
tool
Description:

Flashy-Thing: Minor Transform 9d6 (Normal Person into Person with Edited Memories of Preceding 5 minutes, Can Be Reversed By Another Application of the Power) (45 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), 4 Charges (-1), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Requires A Roll (DEX roll; -1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Limited Power (Negated by Visual Flash Defense; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4)
Real Cost: 5 Points

Bio:

The Flashy-Thing is a piece of hardware obtained from REDACTEDin REDACTED by REDACTED on DATE REDACTED. It consists of a metal cylinder approximately eight inches long. One end features a small red lens. When a control stud is pressed by the user, the red lens generates a bright flash of light; anyone who is looking toward the lens is subjected a powerful psychic effect which is not yet fully understood.

What is understood is that the subject’s memories of the previous five minutes (approximately) are eliminated. {The science staff theorize that the device prevents the brain from transferring data from short-term to long-term memory, much like the lack of memory of the event that often follows a severe accident or assault—but without the accompanying physical trauma.) The subject is left in a brief (about one minute) but highly suggestible state. If he is instructed as to what he “remembers” of the last few minutes, he will accept this as the truth, often filling in details from his longer-term memory or imagination that reinforce the story he has been told.

The device is fragile, and requires considerable battery power. It is good for about 4 uses in the field before it must be returned to the armory for recharging (it uses an integral power source, and all efforts to employ more conventional batteries have failed). It is completely ineffective against anyone whose vision is filtered in any way (even ordinary sunglasses). It can be very dangerous to the user, so typically both hands are used to aim it or the user dons a pair of sunglasses with one hand while he readies the device with the other.


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#16 Cassandra

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 12:50 PM

Daisy from NTSF:SD:SUV had a mind wipe device in the episode "Burn After Killing".  She used it to erase the mind of Trent Hauser's Fiancee.  It didn't work, so Daisy hit her with it.


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#17 Doctor Secret

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 04:56 AM

What about the 'de'neuralyser? Would that be just the fluff for the reversal of the transform? Or does it get an entirely different stat-block of it's own?



#18 bigdamnhero

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 03:21 PM

"Healed by another application of the same device" or words to that effect.
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