Regeneration With a Limited Resurrection

[CanuckAmuck]

The idea: a character has regeneration with resurrection, but the regeneration, normally acting at 1 BODY per 20 minutes, only acts at 1 BODY per hour when resurrecting the character back to life - once alive again, the higher rate of regeneration resumes.

 

What I'm thinking is to apply a Limited Power "power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness" Limitation only on the Resurrection adder, which (ignoring the "about" and assuming a straight 2/3) mathematically makes something taking 20 minutes take three times longer - IOW, an hour.  This will give the 20 point Resurrection adder a limitation of -1 1/2, making the final cost of it 8 points.

 

Add that to the 10 point cost of the 1 BODY per 20 minutes Regeneration for a total cost of 18.

 

What'cha think?  Would it pass muster in your campaign?  Got any other way to do it?  Disagree with my interpretation of "loses two-thirds of its effectiveness" and/or wonder how I came to my above conclusion?  Don't like the way I part my hair?  All input welcome.

[Hugh Neilson]

So, if the Regen was 1 BOD per day, would you slap a huge advantage on the Resurrect adder to make it 1 BOD per hour? I don't think coming back in a day instead of an hour markedly reduces the value of being able to come back from the dead, nor do I think it's really well-defined how rapidly one recovers from death using resurrection. If I wanted to rules lawyer, after 1 hour, you recover 1 BOD. You are still at negative BOD, so you lose 1 BOD in post-segment 12. On that basis, 1 point of Regen can never resurrect anyone.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

So, if the Regen was 1 BOD per day, would you slap a huge advantage on the Resurrect adder to make it 1 BOD per hour? I don't think coming back in a day instead of an hour markedly reduces the value of being able to come back from the dead, nor do I think it's really well-defined how rapidly one recovers from death using resurrection. If I wanted to rules lawyer, after 1 hour, you recover 1 BOD. You are still at negative BOD, so you lose 1 BOD in post-segment 12. On that basis, 1 point of Regen can never resurrect anyone.

Really, if you are dead, you shouldn't lose any more body. 

[Hugh Neilson]

Really, if you are dead, you shouldn't lose any more body.

On general principal, I agree.

 

But if someone wants to rules lawyer "I should get Resurrect at a huge discount because it's slower than my usual Regen", I'm fine rules lawyering right back.

 

Let's compare:

 

Regen, 1 BOD /hour (8 points) + Resurrect (20 points) = 28 points

 

Regen, 1 BOD/20 minutes (10 points) + Resurrect (20/2.5 = 8 points 'cuz it drops my Regen to 1/hour) = 18 points.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Even a -1/4 limitation to the adder drops its cost 4 points - the same price as bumping the regen 2 steps up the time chart. 20 points is the price for being able to come back from the dead.

 

Practically, I'm looking sideways at -2 for "resurrection only" now - how 'bout "for 20 points, your character can recover from being dead."

[InfiniteKarma]

The flaw in your logic is the "1/3 as effective" limitation. It's going to be rare that taking the better part of a day, instead of the shorter part of the day (but still squarely outside of "right now") makes the resurrection ineffective.

 

Regardless, Regeneration already includes a hefty limitation for running at once per Turn (or once per 20 minutes). If you want credit for resurrection working slower, it only makes sense to get credit for the difference between 20 minutes and 1 hour, which is -1/2. That frankly seems generous to me, I'd eyeball that limitation at -1/4 based on other limitation costs.

[Christopher]

Okay, just looked up the rules on 6E1 274

 

Really, if you are dead, you shouldn't lose any more body. 

By RAW:
"A character with Regeneration still loses 1 BODY per Turn when he’s below 0 BODY (in other words, he can still “bleed to death”), though sufciently fast Regeneration will bring him back to positive BODY before he dies. Nor does Regeneration automatically counteract the optional Bleeding rules, though the GM might increase the “stop Bleeding” range for a character with Regeneration."

 

However since only the top level (16 Base Cost per body per turn) could actually outheal bleeding to death, Resurrection is propably asumed to stabilize you automatically when undoing your "death" state. Death is a lot a worse then bleeding (approaching death) by definition.

It would be kind of silly if somebody with "Regeneration (1 Body per week), Resurrection" could not revive because he starts bleeding the moment he is back to 1 Body above death (wich is still way in the negatives).

For sanities sake let us asume that a "Person resurrected is stabilized until he takes further damage".

 

 

Regarding OP:
Buy these two powers:
"I heal fast": Regeneration (1 BODY per 20 minutes), 10 Base Cost/Active Points/Real Cost

plus

"Even death can not keep me": Regeneration (1 BODY per Week), Resurrection; 22 Base Cost; 22 Active Points; Only Resurrrection (-2); 7 Real Cost.

Total Cost: 32 Active Points, 17 Real Cost.

 

Note that personally I tend towards modelling "Superfast regeneration" with extra Defenses instead of regeneration. Extra resistant PD/ED, maybe limited to not counter STUN. Recovering STUN can model "regenerating really fast in combat".

It needs some really powerfull attack or penetrating to deal real BODY damage. But since you went for 1 Body/20 Minutes you propably had the same idea.

 

Edit:

I think my idea might not be as clean as I thought at first. I may have to sleep over it before I can give a real answer.

Note that by the exact woring of Resurrection, the speed of Revival does not have to equal the speed of regeneration when he has not yet died. So it might not even be a limitation, but simply how this stuff works for this Campaign in general.

[Christopher]

The rules for both Healing and Regeneration Resurrection seem to asume that "Resurrection is complete when you reach positive Body, wich starts you at 0 STUN and allows you to take recoveries normally." (this also implies 0 END). Once you reach that point you will not be dead again until you hit negative Body again.

So actually my above build should work. The faster regeneration should not start working until the Resurrection is "complete" (you reach positive body again). And the slower would not mater, being way overrun by the faster one.

 

Regarding bleeding to death, Optional Bleeding, Poision, Diseases, etc.:

I would say that all of those are supressed until the Resurrection is complete. They only start mattering when you reach positive Body and can do something about them. However then they come back in full Force. But you have at least half your body as "buffer" until you die again.

 

One thing to not forget about resurrection:
Both Resurrection adders are marked with a clear STOP sign and a "at GM's approval". So the book is fully aware that they might not be fully balanced and palces the choice in the GM's hands.

[Hugh Neilson]

Buy these two powers:

"I heal fast": Regeneration (1 BODY per 20 minutes), 10 Base Cost/Active Points/Real Cost

plus

"Even death can not keep me": Regeneration (1 BODY per Week), Resurrection; 22 Base Cost; 22 Active Points; Only Resurrrection (-2); 7 Real Cost.

Total Cost: 32 Active Points, 17 Real Cost.

And yet if you had Regen, 1 BOD per week with Resurrection, you would pay 22 points - 5 points more to recover BOD slower. So, no, I don't consider that a valid build. Sorry, Steve - I think that -2 limitation for "resurrection only" is dead wrong when evaluated objectively. You want to be capable of coming back from the dead? 20 points, no discounts. If it's not worth 20 points (in general, or in a specific campaign) change the fixed price that applies to everyone.

 

Maybe the adder should be cheaper than the 20 points ported over from Healing - after all, it is self only when applied to healing.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

And yet if you had Regen, 1 BOD per week with Resurrection, you would pay 22 points - 5 points more to recover BOD slower. So, no, I don't consider that a valid build. Sorry, Steve - I think that -2 limitation for "resurrection only" is dead wrong when evaluated objectively. You want to be capable of coming back from the dead? 20 points, no discounts. If it's not worth 20 points (in general, or in a specific campaign) change the fixed price that applies to everyone.

 

Maybe the adder should be cheaper than the 20 points ported over from Healing - after all, it is self only when applied to healing.

What's wrong with the build? It fits the description perfectly, it doesn't violate any rules, and it clearly states its effect. Now, the 20 points for Resurrection is a good adder on just normal Regen. The reason that I justify -2 for Ressurection Only is because you are buying a stable regen and limiting it to a very uncommon situation, death. This means you will almost never be able to use it. 

[Christopher]

And yet if you had Regen, 1 BOD per week with Resurrection, you would pay 22 points - 5 points more to recover BODY slower

Recover body slower AND revive from the dead. Totally different power from "Recover Body faster, but only if you do not drop to negative BODY - then you are dead like the rest".

If anything you should be happy that you got reurrection that automatically triggers on you for a mere 7 Real Cost

 

Maybe the adder should be cheaper than the 20 points ported over from Healing - after all, it is self only when applied to healing.

Self only yes, but also Trigger included.

 

 

If that is too much for a Campaign where death does not occur, that is a issue with allowing resurrection/letting it cost points in the first place.

The mistake happened way before the build even took shape.

 

So I am not sure what you are complaining about.

[Scott Baker]

So, if the Regen was 1 BOD per day, would you slap a huge advantage on the Resurrect adder to make it 1 BOD per hour? I don't think coming back in a day instead of an hour markedly reduces the value of being able to come back from the dead, nor do I think it's really well-defined how rapidly one recovers from death using resurrection. If I wanted to rules lawyer, after 1 hour, you recover 1 BOD. You are still at negative BOD, so you lose 1 BOD in post-segment 12. On that basis, 1 point of Regen can never resurrect anyone.

The application of Regeneration stabilizes the person bleeding out. Steve clarified that point here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/93653-resurrection-amounts/?hl=resurrection

[Chris Goodwin]

If you want to differentiate it, buy Regen, 1/hour, Res, plus one additional level of Regen, Not When Dead, as part of the same Power. Which I would probably give a -1/4 at best for, and which the base cost of the additional level is 2 points.  Most GMs would probably give -0 for Not When Dead, but you've paid for it to work when you're dead already so you ought to get some break.  

 

The Resurrection adder is all or nothing and has lots of built-in conditionality so you don't really get to limit it except as Limitations on the power as a whole. 

[Hugh Neilson]

What's wrong with the build? It fits the description perfectly, it doesn't violate any rules, and it clearly states its effect. Now, the 20 points for Resurrection is a good adder on just normal Regen. The reason that I justify -2 for Ressurection Only is because you are buying a stable regen and limiting it to a very uncommon situation, death. This means you will almost never be able to use it.

What's wrong with paying 5 points MORE to get the same effect, except that you recover SLOWER? Are you really asking that question?

 

Maybe we have to spell it out more clearly:

 

"I heal fast": Regeneration (1 BODY per 20 minutes), 10 Base Cost/Active Points/Real Cost

plus

"Even death can not keep me": Regeneration (1 BODY per Week), Resurrection; 22 Base Cost; 22 Active Points; Only Resurrrection (-2); 7 Real Cost.

Total Cost: 32 Active Points, 17 Real Cost.

 

For 17 points, the character recovers 1 BOD per 20 minutes AND recovers from death at whatever rate the GM decides is appropriate for 1 BOD per week regen

 

OR

 

Regen, 1 BOD per week with Resurrection - 22 points

 

The extra 5 point investment means you recover from death at exactly the same pace, but if still alive recover 1 BOD per week instead of one BOD per 20 minutes.

 

So, pay 5 points to recover BOD slower. Fair?

 

What's wrong with the build is that you get more and pay less.

 

So I am not sure what you are complaining about.

I'm complaining about the character who recovers BOD faster saving points compared to the character who recovers BOD slower. In what way is the character who paid 22 points to Regenerate 1 BOD per week and come back from the dead better off than the character who paid 17 points to recover 1 BOD per 20 minutes and come back from the dead?