Transform and Liquids

[steph]

Hi friends , a player in my fantasy campaign wants to make a mage who has the control of liquids.

 

It can therefore transform liquids. (Water into gas) (Water into Ice) .

 

I use transform- severe for that kind of spell.

 

But how to calculate the amount the mage can transform? 

 

How many litre it represent 

 

For exemple :The player have a  4d6 transform water into ice spell . He roll a 12. What is a 12 in a term of quantity ? 

 

I never find a rule or suggestion for that.

 

Maybe use Change Environnement 

 

Someone here have a system for that ?

 

Your help will be very appreciate.

 

Steph

Hope i am clear

Sorry for the bad english again

[Christopher]

I think this is not a case for Transform at all. This sounds like a Special Effect, not a game effect. And one special effect with a ton of possibly imbalanced game effects on top of that.

"The player have a  4d6 transform water into ice spell" could cause anything from a entangle (if someone is in the water), to slow death from freezing (the guys is stuck neckdeep in ice), to making a raft or a bridge. You could also drown someone (freezing the surface closed while he is underwater).

Or what if he turned the air's Oxygen Liquid, effectively removing all breathable oxygen?
Even direct damage if applied to the water inside a human body.

 

What I see is a bunch of different powers, with "only over water" or "only on living bodies" limitations.

 

If it is for purely passive, mundane like objects there is "Object Creation" from one of hte APG's. You could make ice-bridges, ice-swords (only capaigns with buyable equipment) and other "mundane items made of ice" out of it.

[doccowie]

I'd agree. It's the HERO way - start with the effect you want to have, then work out the game numbers - not the other way around :- )

 

If your player wants the effect to be "I have complete control over liquids", then that's a VPP, and not a cheap one given the possibilities (as Christopher says above). I mean, it would be easy to argue that he could kill any living creature easily (and messily) by turning all bodily liquid into gas, and almost any nonliving object could be destroyed by creative use of pressure effects.

 

Perhaps a Multipower with a Transform/Object Creation/Change Environment slot, and several other slots actually reflecting the things he wants to do in the game (Blast/Entangle/RKA/movement/NND/Barrier etc, etc, etc? A Power skill could be used to create a one time slot for fancy effects?

[massey]

The truth is, the game doesn't give any real effect for having X liters of water.  How much water can your player create?  It doesn't really matter.  It's not like your player is going to be standing there, filling up a swimming pool, and it's somehow important to know how many phases it will take.

 

So instead, the normal way to represent these things is to take several different powers that let you perform the common effects that you want.  So for instance:

 

Multipower: Water control

--Turn air into water:  xD6 Dispel versus any one fire power at a time (+1/4)

--Turn air into water burst:  xD6 Energy Blast

--Turn air into water, then into ice:  xD6 Entangle

--Turn air into ice on ground:  Change Environment, -X to Dex rolls

--Turn water inside someone's body into ice:  xD6 RKA

 

Stuff like that.

[eepjr24]

If it is for purely passive, mundane like objects there is "Object Creation" from one of hte APG's. You could make ice-bridges, ice-swords (only capaigns with buyable equipment) and other "mundane items made of ice" out of it.

APG2, 32-34. A good read that covers many of the questions you are asking, in my mind.

 

- E

[Sean Waters]

I'm not sure.  I mean, I understand that Hero Fu says 'build the effect', but all that means is people wind up building a VPP and slow the game down a whole lot to no one's particular advantage.

 

There is nothing wrong with using Transform to make liquids into solids or gasses: if the player is trying to get too much mileage out of it, that is what the GM is for.

 

As to amount - well, good question.  Hero is shaky on that.  There is a table which tells you how much Body a hex of various substances has.  On the other hand, if you treat it as a 'wall' you can transform an awful lot more, and there is a table for that too.

 

This is a Fantasy game.  I'd probably make stuff up: every point of Body is a cubic metre of water transformed, or whatever seems fair.

[Ndreare]

You could use the body rolled and compare it to the strength tables to see how much is transformed.

 

But as others have said, I would keep an eye out for abuse. Perhaps ruling that the transformation is slow enough it is impractical to use as an attack.

There are occasions that would make sense such as setting a trap ahead of time, but I would be encouraging the player to take the Power skill and consider what other common effects he plans to get out of it as separate powers.

 

My personal experience is the player in this situation is thinking "well blood is a liquid so I will have instant kill on anyone" and not telling the GM. So be prepared to veto that type of idea unless he buys the appropriate powers.

[eepjr24]

I still like Create Object, since it has defined rules for how much you create. If you want it to be variable, buy the max amount you want it to produce and add in the Proportional Results variant for RSR on APG 145. 

 

- E

[dmjalund]

If i would have magic over liquids, I would limit it to what could be done by keeping them liquid,