Ninja-Bear Posted September 23, 2016 Report Share Posted September 23, 2016 The biggest annoyance for me with WEG is that every imperial has STR stats higer than a Storm Trooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 I always did think Stormtroopers needed beefing up, in many regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 I always did think Stormtroopers needed beefing up, in many regards. I have some ideas like increase STR but reduce armor. What are yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1ll0tr0n Posted September 30, 2016 Report Share Posted September 30, 2016 Would you be opposed to me compiling my templates with yours? I will share them all once I'm done. Not at all! In fact, maybe we should make a GitHub for sharing work on this. One mechanic I use is that Darksiders use MPs instead of VPPs for their Force Powers. This reflects "the quick and easy path" while sacrificing flexibility. A Darksider will beat a Jedi with a similar point investment, but only if the Jedi is fighting dumb, and not using the flex of the VPP. "Dark Side" and "Light Side" points I personally handle with bonus disadvantages, handed out ad-hoc with XP. You might have a better way, though, especially if you have HERO-savvy players. I want to say that probably the biggest single challenge in-world is balancing the lightsaber. Depending on selection of source material, even a generic saber is starting at 60 APs or so. That's way too much for someone with higher CVs and SPD, and you'll find yourselves giving the opposition such high defenses in response that other players grow frustrated with their personal weapons. It's also *completely* lethal when turned against the PCs, and already one of my players has lost a limb. Luckily cybernetics are ubiquitous. Also it is a practical teaching exercise in Aborts. Ultimately, my final approach was to make tiered lightsabers that kept the sword swingers in the same general CER (Combat effectivity rating) as the rest of the PCs. Their starting sabers were thus underwhelming compared to the original films, but around 1/3 of the way through the campaign they will start encountering sabers that approach those of ESB. This week they will also be encountering some new types of saber mods (emitters, lenses, and power packs), beyond the generic ones. There's lots of other challenges- vehicle combat comes to mind- but since the lightsaber is so central it's the one that sticks out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1ll0tr0n Posted October 1, 2016 Report Share Posted October 1, 2016 I have some ideas like increase STR but reduce armor. What are yours? I would tier them. The story basis could be, well, they're clones. While the first few generations were supermen, subsequent generations become increasingly distorted. Stormtrooper quality assurance, however, screens the very best samples for elite units. This would keep the existence of flopsy stormtroopers, in keeping with the original movies, while allowing for some quality heavies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBstacker Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 I would tier them. The story basis could be, well, they're clones. While the first few generations were supermen, subsequent generations become increasingly distorted. Stormtrooper quality assurance, however, screens the very best samples for elite units. This would keep the existence of flopsy stormtroopers, in keeping with the original movies, while allowing for some quality heavies. from what I learned, Their strength comes from their coordination. have several firing on one person and down they go. So definitely teamwork at the least. And remember, Stormtroopers are Special forces, Like the basic special forces soldier. There are regular army soldiers so when they see storm troopers, it needs to be something to fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBstacker Posted October 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Not at all! In fact, maybe we should make a GitHub for sharing work on this. One mechanic I use is that Darksiders use MPs instead of VPPs for their Force Powers. This reflects "the quick and easy path" while sacrificing flexibility. A Darksider will beat a Jedi with a similar point investment, but only if the Jedi is fighting dumb, and not using the flex of the VPP. "Dark Side" and "Light Side" points I personally handle with bonus disadvantages, handed out ad-hoc with XP. You might have a better way, though, especially if you have HERO-savvy players. I want to say that probably the biggest single challenge in-world is balancing the lightsaber. Depending on selection of source material, even a generic saber is starting at 60 APs or so. That's way too much for someone with higher CVs and SPD, and you'll find yourselves giving the opposition such high defenses in response that other players grow frustrated with their personal weapons. It's also *completely* lethal when turned against the PCs, and already one of my players has lost a limb. Luckily cybernetics are ubiquitous. Also it is a practical teaching exercise in Aborts. Ultimately, my final approach was to make tiered lightsabers that kept the sword swingers in the same general CER (Combat effectivity rating) as the rest of the PCs. Their starting sabers were thus underwhelming compared to the original films, but around 1/3 of the way through the campaign they will start encountering sabers that approach those of ESB. This week they will also be encountering some new types of saber mods (emitters, lenses, and power packs), beyond the generic ones. There's lots of other challenges- vehicle combat comes to mind- but since the lightsaber is so central it's the one that sticks out. that lightsaber challenge is very real! I think I did it justice, however. As far as the light side/ darkside issue......I think I may make it an ego check and make a disadvantage for both light and dark side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'm currently playing in a SW game using Fantasy Flight's Edge of Empire rules. I'd much rather be playing it in Hero, but I'm not the GM. One way that system handled the disparity in power levels between Jedi and non-Jedi is by making characters start out so incompetent that just to fly a ship without crashing regularly requires almost as high an investment of XP as Force Mastery. I am not recommending this as a best practice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 You can mine this old Star Wars for HERO document I have: Star Wars stuff.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 from what I learned, Their strength comes from their coordination. have several firing on one person and down they go. So definitely teamwork at the least. And remember, Stormtroopers are Special forces, Like the basic special forces soldier. There are regular army soldiers so when they see storm troopers, it needs to be something to fear. That's the problem with WEG. If Stormtroopers are supposed to be elite, their stats don't reflect It. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1ll0tr0n Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 I'm currently playing in a SW game using Fantasy Flight's Edge of Empire rules. I'd much rather be playing it in Hero, but I'm not the GM. One way that system handled the disparity in power levels between Jedi and non-Jedi is by making characters start out so incompetent that just to fly a ship without crashing regularly requires almost as high an investment of XP as Force Mastery. I am not recommending this as a best practice... We've explored four systems for our Star Wars fix, and EotE was the last one we tried before I sold the boys on Hero. EotE is an extremely well-made product, with uniformly excellent art and writing. It's very imaginative in every respect. Our group did find that the mechanics had some issues. The powergamers among us drove giant Mad Max sized battle trucks through them, needing GM fiat every time, until running became what was in essence DM Storytime. "And now your characters run the blockade!" No one liked that, I made my pitch, and we're doing pretty good with 5th. 6th is probably better but I don't know it and the guys don't know any HERO whatsoever. It's a lot more work running HERO. I made a metric ton of prefabs and templates to essentially automate chargen through a list of choices, and each week have all the PC HDCs checked in a shared drive where I audit them for CER (Combat Effectivity Rating). Make sure no one's buying a dozen 2-pt levels. I make all the baddies, all that stuff. But the powergamers have an outlet now, and, more importantly, having an internally consistent simulation of physical reality makes it strangely easier to come up with scenarios. Like, 5 APs equals so much energy, in measurable terms, ft-lbs or newtons or paschals. That helps me out immensely, as a storyteller. That might just be me. This statement is not meant to be *in any way* critical of EotE. I think it's a great product, perfect for lots of people, and really fun even to just flip through. But in play we couldn't make it work for our group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 7, 2016 Report Share Posted October 7, 2016 I ran a wookiee in a intro game if EotE and had a smash. Plus good rolls help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 One thing that may be useful. Now this is based off of the movies, and not the EU, but it may still be helpful. The absolutely only times in which jedi who are not even close to fully trained are involved in the story, they are either Skywalkers, or soon to be dead younglings. The lightsaber is the weapon of a jedi knight, Luke got his fathers, but everyone else had to make theirs as part of the path. I think there is room for an interesting game in which a jedi in training is actually an asset to their team without recourse to a light saber, and that light saber is something the player is working towards. There are a myriad of useful force powers, seeing into the future, controlling others, that are totally useful to a group. On the flip side, a full jedi knight is an experienced character, and his counterpart is not the lone smuggler, but the smuggler turned general who has had tons of points to throw into his ship, his contacts, and his followers over a long adventuring career. Not the Princess, but the leader of the rebellion, who has forces at her command. All apparently led by R2D2, who used his experience to retcon himself into being in every story involving a Skywalker. A jedi knight is really not a starting character, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Along the same lines, for a jedi in training, role play will have a great influence on character development. If their actions are often done from anxiety, or a quest for power, when they go to make their light saber, they may fail the test by suddenly finding the saber they are able to make being the wrong color for a jedi, and closer to a sith. The in-game problem would be having their master present. Having a much more powerful NPC at hand for the party. However, that NPC might be kept more in the background, purposefully being hands off because it is the will of the force to do so, and more be a background character that helps in between games with training. On the topic of sith powers versus jedi, I think the main difference is that the former use personal stores and are always seeking to use the force to force events to their favor. The jedi do not, if it is not the will of the force for a certain thing to go as planned, the jedi will not choose to alter this, but instead accept it. For myself, I would probably go with a single set of game mechanics to convey this, but that might be a headache to design. Thus, if a character absolutely hated the terrible enemy who destroyed his planet, they might suddenly find they have more force points(or whatever you want to call them) when fighting that enemy, but the character had better think about where those points came from, because using them means a step toward the dark side. conversely, if the character controls their hate, calms themselves, and gets force points in the conflict, it may be the will of the force that today, the villain may fall. Actually, this might be a workable and simple approach. For the most part, it would require no special rules(aside from lightning powers) to differentiate jedi powers from sith powers. It would merely be the case that often, the sith have extra points from their anger and hatred that the jedi might not have, but, at pivotal moments, the jedi will have the force itself on their side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Never got to play with that concept, but I figured that Dark Side users would be forced to take Berserk/Enraged of some sort and then take a Boost to all Force Powers until the Berserk recovered. I would also require some extra Psych Lims (or even DNPC) to represent their emotional weaknesses. I actually think this would be a great approach. I would go one further. The psych lims would be not merely the side effect, but the source for the power. So, to get the power, they must have a check against that psych lim and fail that check. This, conversely, creates a means by which a jedi character would find themselves in a sticky position. Their fear of losing people, like Annakin's, comes up. They fail the check, all while the jedi council is sending them on missions. Lots of chances to fail that roll and begin the path down the dark side. So, a jedi on the path to sithdom might have a specific psych lim, fear of loss, love of possessions, whatever. However, once on the dark side, these things aren't enough. Their character flaws must become more general in order to always have recourse to the dark side. Love of hatred, love of revenge. If they fail to do this, their sith master will be more powerful than them and manipulate them through the more specific fears and hatreds the apprentice has. However, as you said, more often having to base plans and actions on the caveat of 'as long as I continue hating so that I have enough power' means those plans will be made under the influence of psych limitations. This way, one mechanic covers both the jedi and the sith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 Oh, I was mistaken. There are two powers specific to the dark side. Force lightning, and being able to hide their plans and existence from the senses of the jedi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 8, 2016 Report Share Posted October 8, 2016 EotE is an extremely well-made product, with uniformly excellent art and writing. It's very imaginative in every respect. Our group did find that the mechanics had some issues. The powergamers among us drove giant Mad Max sized battle trucks through them, needing GM fiat every time, until running became what was in essence DM Storytime. "And now your characters run the blockade!"...This statement is not meant to be *in any way* critical of EotE. I think it's a great product, perfect for lots of people, and really fun even to just flip through. But in play we couldn't make it work for our group. That's basically our experience too. We also felt like the novelty of the dice pool mechanic wore off after a few sessions. But it's what the GM wants to run so it's what we're playing. (I run Hero every other week.) Great looking books tho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBstacker Posted October 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 You can mine this old Star Wars for HERO document I have: I really appreciate That! I'm getting back into the conversion...had to take a break due to work. so I was thinking of doing martial arts next. Or should I start on races? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I have some ideas like increase STR but reduce armor. What are yours? Yeah, adding STR would make sense. Stormtrooper Armor is a bit of a conflicted issue, for me. Kind of go, back and forth on how powerful it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 One thing that may be useful. Now this is based off of the movies, and not the EU, but it may still be helpful. The absolutely only times in which jedi who are not even close to fully trained are involved in the story, they are either Skywalkers, or soon to be dead younglings. The lightsaber is the weapon of a jedi knight, Luke got his fathers, but everyone else had to make theirs as part of the path. I think there is room for an interesting game in which a jedi in training is actually an asset to their team without recourse to a light saber, and that light saber is something the player is working towards. There are a myriad of useful force powers, seeing into the future, controlling others, that are totally useful to a group. On the flip side, a full jedi knight is an experienced character, and his counterpart is not the lone smuggler, but the smuggler turned general who has had tons of points to throw into his ship, his contacts, and his followers over a long adventuring career. Not the Princess, but the leader of the rebellion, who has forces at her command. All apparently led by R2D2, who used his experience to retcon himself into being in every story involving a Skywalker. A jedi knight is really not a starting character, imo. I have to admit, I never got the whole make a lightsaber to become a Jedi. That's more like a weaponsmith skill, to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 That's basically our experience too. We also felt like the novelty of the dice pool mechanic wore off after a few sessions. But it's what the GM wants to run so it's what we're playing. (I run Hero every other week.) Great looking books tho! Dice rolls for character creation? Yeah, I hate that, myself with my unlucky rolling. Hutt speed, Jawa strength, and gamorrean intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I've came to the conclusion that for the most part, StormTroopers are the Red shirts of Star Wars. I was looking over a scenerio in the Supernova module and the main baddies are ISB with their own guards. That just didn't feel right to me when I read it. Im still going to use the ISB agent but substitute the guards for stormies. I know that in the openining scene, the players are going to expect Storm Troopers! I will though have more powerful Stormies then down the line. Fluff wise, Im going to push the idea that many of the Stormtroopers are more or less raw recruits thrown in armor. They are a symbal of the Empire and the Empire needs legions of them to be ubiquios. Also I like the idea that the Sith really don't care about its man power. Why else wouldn't the TIE have shields? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBstacker Posted October 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I have to admit, I never got the whole make a lightsaber to become a Jedi. That's more like a weaponsmith skill, to me. From what I've researched, It seems to be that the master gives the padawan his first lightsaber so the padawan can learn about it. It is one of the requirements for knighthood that he constructs his own though. But on Starwars rebels, which is canon, Ezra built his own first before Kanan started teaching him. So I guess it depends on the master I guess. Plus it is much more than just building a lightsaber. It's treated like a bonding exercise in the force. Some Jedi regard the lightsaber not as a weapon but more like a focusing tool for the force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBstacker Posted October 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I've came to the conclusion that for the most part, StormTroopers are the Red shirts of Star Wars. I was looking over a scenerio in the Supernova module and the main baddies are ISB with their own guards. That just didn't feel right to me when I read it. Im still going to use the ISB agent but substitute the guards for stormies. I know that in the openining scene, the players are going to expect Storm Troopers! I will though have more powerful Stormies then down the line. Fluff wise, Im going to push the idea that many of the Stormtroopers are more or less raw recruits thrown in armor. They are a symbal of the Empire and the Empire needs legions of them to be ubiquios. Also I like the idea that the Sith really don't care about its man power. Why else wouldn't the TIE have shields? I truly hate what they've done to the stormtroopers.....They are supposed to be Spec force not spec fodder lol! there were actual regular army troopers that we never saw.....I think I should build a stormtrooper to reflect this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted October 15, 2016 Report Share Posted October 15, 2016 I truly hate what they've done to the stormtroopers.....They are supposed to be Spec force not spec fodder lol! there were actual regular army troopers that we never saw.....I think I should build a stormtrooper to reflect this. Well I do think that the Storm troopers in FA were more deadly and competent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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