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Pokemon conversions


whitekeys

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Here are some thoughts I've had so far that seem to be working out pretty well while I'm putting together a Pikachu.

 

1. I'm sticking to 1st Generation (pokemon, attacks, and stats) because that's what I grew up with, that's what's simplest, and that's what they've used for the recent Pokemon Go (which I'm not a player of, but I do like it.)

 

EDIT: I've changed my mind. I will be mixing elements of both current Gen VI and original Gen I. Such things as the adjusted power ratings of old attacks in the current Gen, I feel like I should take into account. However, I don't feel like using 20+ different kinds of poke balls. Furthermore, it may not be necessary to attempt to include all 600 different kinds of pokemon.

 

2. Bulbapedia is by far the best resource for information on Pokemon. I'm using that as a reference.

 

3. For attacks labelled Physical, Special, and Status-Effecting, I am equating to PD, ED, and "Variable Defenses depending on Special Effect", respectively. 

 

4. The kid-friendly genre standard of never doing actual harm to anything works in our favour. It simplifies the damage system to STUN only, so points don't have to be wasted on buying Resistant Protection, extra BODY to simulate HP, spending more points on Killing Attacks, and the like. It also ensures our Pokemon can always be healed at the PokeCenter easily. Therefore, damaging attacks are Blast with the +0 Advantage STUN Only. There, of course, would be a limitation on the STUN about not recovering at the regular rate, or not recovering at all assuming a knockout.

 

5. I have chosen to simulate the power ratings of each attack, listed on Bulbapedia, as 15/1DC. So, attacks with a power rating from 0-15 are bought as a 1d6 Blast, 16-30 are bought as 2d6 Blast... and so on, up to 150 bought as 10d6. The one attack from 1st Generation with a Power rating higher than 150 is Explosion (170). This attack, and Self-Destruct, are supposed to halve the target's defense, effectively giving them power ratings of 340 and 260, respectively. I haven't attempted to create these attacks yet, but seeing as how they're supposed to be one-hit knockouts, there might be a different way of building them instead of Blast 23d6. Considering the high-powered attacks like Hyperbeam and Sky Attack aren't easily learned by most pokemon, I feel this 15/1DC system works pretty well. I feel like these attacks fall into the low-powered Heroic category. The real point cost of all the electric-type attacks I've created for Pikachu range from 6 - 14 points. The Active points range from 15 - 40 active points. How do people feel about this?

 

6. Hard to say exactly what the balance of these attacks will be with the PD or ED bought for each pokemon, or how much STUN... but I'm thinking PD and ED should be kept low or toolkitted to be much more expensive, and STUN amounts should be kept higher to best simulate HP.

 

7. Every attack get's a +0 Advantage for declaring the "type" of attack is it, such as Electric-type attack (+0). This will have an effect on Vulnerability complications and Damage Reduction powers, representing type-based weaknesses and resistances. How do I do immunities, like Ghosts being immune to normal and fighting-type attacks?

 

8. The one Status-effecting power I've made is Paralysis from Thunder Wave. I built this as:

 

8  1)   Thunder Wave: Minor Transform 4d6 (Target receives Requires a Roll 11- on everything, 12- Roll on Target's Phase), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Mental Defense; +0), Electric-type (+0), Works Against EGO, Not BODY (+1/4) (25 Active Points); 20 Recoverable Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Healing at PokeCenter required for Recovery; -1 1/4), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target ([slightly Limited]; Only against humans, animals, and pokemon; -1/4)

[20 rc]

 

I'm wondering if it should be a Major Transform.. but the cost is very inflated that way. A 12- Roll roughly signifies a 75% chance of recovery on 3d6. I've taken the rulebook's recommendation on making this a Mental Transform, including the Limited Target limitation; Recoverable Charges are the PP (as in the game - from Bulbapedia); All-or-Nothing prevents the status effect from being too powerful, as, rather than having this transform accumulate 'damage' which would never be healed back over the course of one battle, there is a certain chance to affect the target each time.

 

9. Certain attacks are damaging plus a certain percent chance to inflict a status effect, such as Thunder. I made this a Blast as normal, then I made a second form of Thunder Wave, which I simply called Paralysis, and linked it to Thunder. It has two more limitations: Linked, and Requires a Roll (6- roll; -1 1/2). A 6- roll roughly represents a 10% of success, as per stats on Thunder. A failed roll simply means the paralysis did not take effect, since it doesn't have it's own special effect - it's just part of the Thunder attack. However, if it succeeded, they'd have to make another attack roll for that power and total the dice in an All-or-Nothing fashion. Perhaps the Required Roll should be higher to reflect the increased likelihood on failure due to the attack roll and the All-or-Nothing Transform. 

 

10. That's all for now!

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Seeing as how, in the show, pokemon were capable of learning more than four moves, it seems these attacks should exist in a VPP. The Pool will have a similar effect to only having four moves at one's disposal, depending on how they are switched. 

 

EDIT: Can anyone comment on the utility of having more than one VPP, say, one for Physical attacks and one for Status moves?

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I have off and on tried to write up Pokemon myself and you have done more than I have.

 

I see a problem with 1DC/15 in that is there going to be a pokemon with only 1D6 Blast? How are you going to make sure that every pokemon can effect another no matter the power level?

 

This is a good point. Here are some solutions:

 

I can up the starting value of 0-15 Power Ratings, beginning the scale at, say, 2d6, making the upper attacks 11d6. I could try and fudge the numbers around in anyway I thought was more balance, like 20/1DC starting at 3d6, but this could be time consuming, requiring many more play-tests.

 

Better, I could declare a minimum effect rule, like any successful attack, including such status moves as Poisoning, always do at least 1 STUN Damage. This seemed to be the case in the video games for weak attacks like Wrap, that were designed to do small amounts of damage while at the same time restricting the amount of damage taken. Even if you got wrapped by a significantly weaker pokemon, it was always going to do at least 1 Damage to you. And, generally speaking, it seems like a fair rule here, given the context of the game and game balance (though I haven't tested it yet to say that with 100% confidence).

 

Thanks for the feedback!

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On attacks:

 

While the video games provide a long list of interesting and unique attacks, each with a Type and stats, I don't feel that a HERO conversion should be restricted to that list. It makes more sense that Trainers (Player Characters) should be able to train their Pokemon however they want, and to do whatever they want, coming up with new attacks, their own special effects, etc. You could teach new electric attacks like Lightning Storm or Thundernado, not just Thunder Shock and Thunder Bolt.

 

Furthermore, attacks such as Tackle, Bind/Wrap/Constrict, Headbutt, Takedown, Double Slap, are all different special effects of Strike (since they're all Normal Physical attacks with no other effects) and are already covered by Maneuvers such as Move Through, Grab, Shove, Trip, and Multiple Attack, respectively; moves like Leer and Growl are covered by Presence attacks;  I feel like this would give more emphasis to Pokemon Characteristics, rather than having character creation focus solely on Powers, and further supports my feeling in the first paragraph.

 

It should logically follow that Pokemon with no claws can't Scratch, Pokemon with no feet or legs can't Stomp, and Pokemon with low SPD shouldn't Quick Attack. This is no penalty, just a logical special effect. Strike is still available to all Pokemon in some form or another, just as it is available to all characters. 

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Presence Attacks

 

Presence attacks are generally made with the regular HERO rules, but their effects are slightly altered in this conversion.

Firstly, Presence attacks in combat are meant to represent certain Status-Affecting moves such as Leer or Tail Whip. As such, a Presence Attack during combat constitutes an Attack Action, and thus has a duration of Half-Phase and ends a Pokemon’s Phase. Alternatively, a Presence Attack can be used as an Action that takes no time for a specific effect (see below).

Secondly, even though all Pokemon have a PRE, Presence attacks which reduce a target’s Characteristic, as per the rules below, must be “learned”. Trainers must teach their Pokemon to use them before gaining their benefits in combat, that is, they cost Character points beyond what has been spent on PRE. They are, in effect, Presence Attack Maneuvers, and must be purchased in a like manner.

Effects from Presence Attacks are ‘transferable’ from Trainer to Pokemon or Pokemon to Trainer. That is, a Pokemon, as it is a Follower of a Character, can intimidate another Character on behalf on it’s Trainer, or, in other words, the Trainer can get the benefit of any successful Presence Attack made by their Pokemon, taking into account common sense and dramatic sense. The GM can rule that a Trainer’s action does not benefit from their Pokemon’s successful Presence attack if the GM feels it doesn’t make sense. Otherwise, PRE and Presence attacks can be used outside combat in the regular fashion, as detailed in the HERO System rule book, without having to purchase Presence Attack Maneuvres. Presence attacks outside combat can be used to intimidate other people, like cowing another trainer into giving up a battle before it begins, or impressing other people into believing you are a better Trainer than you are, etc.

 

Presence Attack Maneuvers

The Base Cost of each Maneuver is 5. Simply name the Maneuver after the Special Effect, such as Tail Whip or Leer, and define which Characteristic it will reduce. Players can choose from the following Characteristics to be the subject of Presence Attack Maneuvers: DCV (Evasion), DEX (Speed), or STR (Attack). Players can apply the Expanded Effect Advantage at the Plus One level, for +½ Advantage, or the Plus Two level, for +1 Advantage, in order to reduce more than one Characteristic simultaneously. Players can apply the Cumulative Advantage, as well.

There is no minimum cost for purchasing Presence Attack Maneuvers.

 

Effects of Presence Attacks:

 

Attack Equal to Presence

If the total on the Presence Attack dice at least equals the target’s PRE, the target’s Characteristic is reduced by 1.

 

PRE +10

If the total on the Presence Attack dice exceeds the target’s PRE by +10, the target’s Characteristic is reduced by 2. For every +10 points exceeding the target’s PRE thereafter, the Characteristic is reduced further by 1. Exceeding by +20 reduces the Characteristic by 3, exceeding by +30 reduces the Characteristic by 4, etc.

 

The effects of Presence Attack Maneuvers remain in effect until the end of a battle.

 

Special Use

As an Action which takes no time, a Pokemon can make a Presence attack solely for the purposes of acting before the target on on any Segment in which both the Attacker and the Target have a Phase. This Action must be made on the Phase in which it is to take effect. A Pokemon cannot “hold” the effects of a successful Special Use Presence attack until a later phase. The total on the Presence Attack dice must equal the target’s PRE in the least in order to succeed. Succeeding by more provides no other benefit.

 
__________________________________________
 
That's what I just wrote up on Presence attacks. Not sure if it's too much changing things, or if I should just buy them as Drains. Note: Most of these rules are standard HERO rules, with very minor changes. For example, the regular Presence attacks reduce a target's DCV to 1/2 or 0. I simply apportioned this effect for better utility, where, when the 1/2 DCV condition takes effect at +20 per the normal rules, my system has that at -3 DCV. Same with acting before an opponent in combat. Expanded Effect advantage was changed to +1 and +2 rather than x2 and x3. I could have done all the Status-Effecting moves this way, and let Players choose from a whole list of Characteristics to reduce, such as OCV or PD, but that was too much. It would make PRE way over-powered. 
 
This will have to be play tested. Any volunteers? lol
 
EDIT: Clarification on my explanation.
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For Ghost type they can use desolid that only protect from fighting/normal attacks.

Aha! I had been vaguely wondering about immunities but hadn't quite got there. This is an excellent suggestion, thanks. This power could work for any Pokemon with immunities. The special effect can change, of course.

 

Sometimes it's hard to know if the effect you're trying to represent should be built by the attacker or the target. For example, all the Slots in your Fighting-type attack VPP are taken Does not work against Ghost-type Pokemon, vs all Ghost-type Pokemon taking Desolification Only works Against Fighting, Normal, and Ground types. Or both? Qui bono? Fighting types saving more points on attacks, or Ghost types spending points to protect themselves. 

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My current conundrum is Snorlax's Rest ability. The trouble is the seemingly ridiculous amount of Active points that would go into a Heal power, especially since Rest typically heals all Hit Points (STUN in this case), AND Status Conditions, which would mean it would need to take Expanded Effect advantage, and fully restore a pokemon with one of the highest Hit Point totals in the game.

 

This has raised the question for me: Once a Stat has been raised or lowered via move like Tail Whip or Agility, what are the video game's conditions for returning those to normal (other than ending the battle or healing at the Pokecenter)? Does Rest restore Snorlax's Attack power after being Growled at? If not, I think this would be appropriate to include in a HERO conversion. This makes Rest more expensive.

 

I figured out a better solution. Absorption works by taking BODY Damage caused by attacks and converting them into Character points with which a Character can "Aid" other abilities - in this case Snorlax's STUN. It's bought 1:1, and since you can absorb twice the amount you pay for, this makes it much less expensive to purchase for the whole value of Snorlax's HP. 

 

The trouble is that it's technically only supposed to absorb BODY Damage done by attacks, and it's not something Steve made an exceptions for with different Advantages or Adders. However, as the campaign standard is everything's STUN and no BODY, I feel it would be appropriate to have Absorb absorb STUN. 

 

The power below is actually two powers. One is the Absorption power that operates "in the background" so to speak, and it is limited such that the absorbed STUN is stored up and can only be (re)applied to STUN at a certain time. That time is when Snorlax actually uses Rest: a custom power that actually does nothing, but has the Side Effect of putting Snorlax to sleep. Sleep is roughly equivalent to being Stunned. 

 

14 Ability-Rest: Absorption 9 BODY (Physical and Special, STUN), Absorbs STUN (+0), Persistent (+1/4), Increased Maximum (x4 points) (+1/2), Varying Effect (Physical, Special; +3/4), Delayed Return Rate (Lasts until end of battle; +1) (31 Active Points); Limited Application (Absorbed points are stored and can only be applied when Snorlax uses Rest; -3/4), Only Restores To Starting Values (-1/2) 0

 

1 Rest: Status Move (1 Active Points); 10 Recoverable Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Healing at PokeCenter required for Healing; -1 1/4), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Pokemon falls Asleep; -1) [10 rc]

 

So far, this is only  to heal HP, and not remove status effects. I'll think more on that. 

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1. I'm sticking to 1st Generation (pokemon, attacks, and stats) because that's what I grew up with, that's what's simplest, and that's what they've used for the recent Pokemon Go (which I'm not a player of, but I do like it.)

 

Are you going to stick to the original 15 types introduced in generation I, or are you going to include steel, fairy, dark, and whatever else might exist now? I ask because Pokemon Go currently is only dealing with Gen I Pokemon, but the newer types are present on the Pokemon and they're attacks.

 

2. Bulbapedia is by far the best resource for information on Pokemon. I'm using that as a reference.

 

Pop culture wikis can be really good for info.

 

3. For attacks labelled Physical, Special, and Status-Effecting, I am equating to PD, ED, and "Variable Defenses depending on Special Effect", respectively. 

 

That seems like a good starting point to me.

 

4. The kid-friendly genre standard of never doing actual harm to anything works in our favour. It simplifies the damage system to STUN only, so points don't have to be wasted on buying Resistant Protection, extra BODY to simulate HP, spending more points on Killing Attacks, and the like. It also ensures our Pokemon can always be healed at the PokeCenter easily. Therefore, damaging attacks are Blast with the +0 Advantage STUN Only. There, of course, would be a limitation on the STUN about not recovering at the regular rate, or not recovering at all assuming a knockout.

 

You could make it so that REC only affect Endurance and not Stun, or you could take REC out altogether and build each attack on charges.

 

 

5. I have chosen to simulate the power ratings of each attack, listed on Bulbapedia, as 15/1DC. So, attacks with a power rating from 0-15 are bought as a 1d6 Blast, 16-30 are bought as 2d6 Blast... and so on, up to 150 bought as 10d6. The one attack from 1st Generation with a Power rating higher than 150 is Explosion (170). This attack, and Self-Destruct, are supposed to halve the target's defense, effectively giving them power ratings of 340 and 260, respectively. I haven't attempted to create these attacks yet, but seeing as how they're supposed to be one-hit knockouts, there might be a different way of building them instead of Blast 23d6. Considering the high-powered attacks like Hyperbeam and Sky Attack aren't easily learned by most pokemon, I feel this 15/1DC system works pretty well. I feel like these attacks fall into the low-powered Heroic category. The real point cost of all the electric-type attacks I've created for Pikachu range from 6 - 14 points. The Active points range from 15 - 40 active points. How do people feel about this?

 

Isn't the damage of an attack also dependent on the Pokemon's stats and level? If I'm reading this correctly, with this set up, a lvl 15 Ratata doing a tackle would do the same amount of damage as a lvl 50 Rhyhorn. I'm assuming I'm missing something. Aren't there other variables to consider when determining how much damage an attack would do? 

 

Regarding Self-Destruct and Explosion: That sounds like Armor Piercing to me. They're supposed to be one-hit KOs, but I remember that not being the case while playing the game.

 

6. Hard to say exactly what the balance of these attacks will be with the PD or ED bought for each pokemon, or how much STUN... but I'm thinking PD and ED should be kept low or toolkitted to be much more expensive, and STUN amounts should be kept higher to best simulate HP.

 

Upping the cost of PD and ED would probably make sense, as would reducing the cost of STUN. You should probably decide on that once you have attack damage figured out.

 

7. Every attack get's a +0 Advantage for declaring the "type" of attack is it, such as Electric-type attack (+0). This will have an effect on Vulnerability complications and Damage Reduction powers, representing type-based weaknesses and resistances. How do I do immunities, like Ghosts being immune to normal and fighting-type attacks?

 

Ninja'd by Ninja-Bear

 

8. The one Status-effecting power I've made is Paralysis from Thunder Wave. I built this as:

 

8  1)   Thunder Wave: Minor Transform 4d6 (Target receives Requires a Roll 11- on everything, 12- Roll on Target's Phase), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Mental Defense; +0), Electric-type (+0), Works Against EGO, Not BODY (+1/4) (25 Active Points); 20 Recoverable Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances; Healing at PokeCenter required for Recovery; -1 1/4), All Or Nothing (-1/2), Limited Target ([slightly Limited]; Only against humans, animals, and pokemon; -1/4)

[20 rc]

 

I'm wondering if it should be a Major Transform.. but the cost is very inflated that way. A 12- Roll roughly signifies a 75% chance of recovery on 3d6. I've taken the rulebook's recommendation on making this a Mental Transform, including the Limited Target limitation; Recoverable Charges are the PP (as in the game - from Bulbapedia); All-or-Nothing prevents the status effect from being too powerful, as, rather than having this transform accumulate 'damage' which would never be healed back over the course of one battle, there is a certain chance to affect the target each time. 

 

If I remember correctly, paralysis also affects the targets speed, which affect DEX order in HEROES. I wouldn't use transform to simulate the adding of the complication with this. A couple of weeks ago there were a couple of discussions about using Change Environment to temporarily apply complications onto characters. I can link to the relevant sections if you'd like. This limitation "Only against humans, animals, and pokemon; -1/4" doesn't seem very necessary to me.

 

 

9. Certain attacks are damaging plus a certain percent chance to inflict a status effect, such as Thunder. I made this a Blast as normal, then I made a second form of Thunder Wave, which I simply called Paralysis, and linked it to Thunder. It has two more limitations: Linked, and Requires a Roll (6- roll; -1 1/2). A 6- roll roughly represents a 10% of success, as per stats on Thunder. A failed roll simply means the paralysis did not take effect, since it doesn't have it's own special effect - it's just part of the Thunder attack. However, if it succeeded, they'd have to make another attack roll for that power and total the dice in an All-or-Nothing fashion. Perhaps the Required Roll should be higher to reflect the increased likelihood on failure due to the attack roll and the All-or-Nothing Transform. 

 

A compound power with damaging affect and a status affect (on an activation roll) might simulate what you're going for better. I'll have to think about this.

 

10. That's all for now!

 

Keep it up! This is really interesting.

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Seeing as how, in the show, pokemon were capable of learning more than four moves, it seems these attacks should exist in a VPP. The Pool will have a similar effect to only having four moves at one's disposal, depending on how they are switched. 

 

EDIT: Can anyone comment on the utility of having more than one VPP, say, one for Physical attacks and one for Status moves?

 

I've never made a character with 2 VPPs, but it sounds unwieldy. Can I ask why you haven't considered the multipower framework?

 

I want to comment more, but you've written a lot as you're thinking through all the issues for this particular conversion. I'll come back to this with more questions and comments. This is one of those threads that's going to be sitting in the back of my mind for while.

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I think you're overthinking a lot of this.  You've written... a LOT.  I've skimmed over much of it, but it's a bit of a wall of text.  

 

Overall, I think you're trying to mimic the game mechanics too closely.  I saw you mentioned Snorlax's rest ability.  I'd suggest buying him a huge recovery score, maybe on a limitation, and then let that take care of it.  +60 Recovery, with the limitation that he sacrifices his next phase as he "wakes up".  With a decent basic Rec, that should be enough to put him at full Stun.

 

Keep it as simple as possible.

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I think you're overthinking a lot of this.  You've written... a LOT.  I've skimmed over much of it, but it's a bit of a wall of text.  

 

Overall, I think you're trying to mimic the game mechanics too closely.  I saw you mentioned Snorlax's rest ability.  I'd suggest buying him a huge recovery score, maybe on a limitation, and then let that take care of it.  +60 Recovery, with the limitation that he sacrifices his next phase as he "wakes up".  With a decent basic Rec, that should be enough to put him at full Stun.

 

Keep it as simple as possible.

I agree, massey. When I first discovered HERO a number of years ago, when it was 5ed, I attempted to convert MechAssault. I had lots of fun, but looking back on it now, the results were terrible and I attempted to change too many things. I realized that HERO is balanced, elegant, even, and the more I change it, the uglier it becomes.

 

However, that conversion was a lot different than what I'm attempting here. Here, I'm not really changing much of anything, but using the rules to build Pokemon powers. I'm not saying what I've got here is the best.. it's going to take a while to get it right, but I don't find it overly complicated. At least not more so than any other game involving complex powers and abilities. The build you suggest is problematic in different ways, I'd have to think about it some more, but it's a good alternative to what I have. Thanks for suggesting it. I actually had completely forgot that REC gives back STUN in all the other problems I was having. 

 

It's true enough.. the BODY and STUN system is somewhat complicated, and narrowing it down to just one or the other seems like a simplification. But maybe it would be easier to say that, even though a Pokemon's BODY has been reduced to 0 this battle, they can still be revived at the Pokecenter later on. That brings more substance to REC and STUN, like you suggest. I'll think more on that, too.

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Are you going to stick to the original 15 types introduced in generation I, or are you going to include steel, fairy, dark, and whatever else might exist now? I ask because Pokemon Go currently is only dealing with Gen I Pokemon, but the newer types are present on the Pokemon and they're attacks.

Ah, I did not know that. It's neither here nor there at this point. The type-based effects are minor complications that can be easily added later. But to answer your question, I just thought it would make it simpler. I appreciated the Gen 1 when I was a kid. Recently, when i was thinking about actual campaigns and starting PCs off with starter pokemon, I thought there's a bit more variety of types in Gen 2 even, so I'll think about it.

 

 

You could make it so that REC only affect Endurance and not Stun, or you could take REC out altogether and build each attack on charges.

This is essentially what I'm doing. Charges is the PP of the attack, needing to be healed at the PokeCenter for Recovery. The only problem I see with this is that the PP numbers we're dealing with all have the save Limitation value as per HERO Rules. So attacks with 15 Charges are at the same cost-savings as attacks with 40 PP. Not sure if it really matters at this point.

 

 

Regarding Self-Destruct and Explosion: That sounds like Armor Piercing to me. They're supposed to be one-hit KOs, but I remember that not being the case while playing the game.

Great suggestion, thanks.

Keep it up! This is really interesting.

Thanks! I'm glad this has caught more people's attention.

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I've never made a character with 2 VPPs, but it sounds unwieldy. Can I ask why you haven't considered the multipower framework?

 

I want to comment more, but you've written a lot as you're thinking through all the issues for this particular conversion. I'll come back to this with more questions and comments. This is one of those threads that's going to be sitting in the back of my mind for while.

Partly because I'm not as familiar with Multipowers, partly because I'm probably going the route of no Power frameworks at all. It seems too overpowering at the moment. After all, a Trainer buys Pokemon as followers, and I've already waived the rule about not buying followers built on more points than the Leader. Even the rule about getting twice as many followers for +5 points seems unbalanced. I'm not going to throw Power Frameworks into the mix to make those followers even more powerful. No, the powers I'm coming up with are generally pretty low cost, I feel they can be on their own.

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My most recent build has been for Poké Balls and how to catch Pokemon. 

 

I built them as a simple Entangle, starting as 2d6 for Poké Ball, and increasing by 2d6 for each level after that, Great, Ultra, Master. The Poké Ball then has 2 PD (ED will be useless for reasons stated below) and an average BODY of 7. Since we're making the damage system one-track, I see no problem in defining this Entangle as having 7 STUN, as a special effect of the Poké Ball.

 

If the sorts of wild pokemon you come across at the beginning of an adventure have an average STR of 10, like regular normals, then they do 2d6 HTH, or a standard effect of 7 STUN. Taking into account the PD of the Entangle, that's 5 STUN, which equates to 2 Phases until it breaks out. How do I prevent it from breaking out, simulating the fact that it has been caught more or less permanently?

 

Each Pokemon has two Complications. The first and most important is a Pyschological Complication: Enjoys the Poké Ball environment. This makes it easier to explain why Pokemon get caught in the first place, and the details of this explanation can be found at this link under the Mechanics and Design heading. So, if the pokemon can break out of the entangle in 2 phases, it's not caught. It if can't, because of good rolls on the part of the Trainer, or bad rolls on the part of the pokemon, it's caught. This adds a bit of chance to it. Secondly, Physical Complication: Half STR when at, or below, 25% STUN favours the trainer if they've done battle and reduced it's HP. An explanation of this also appears in the link above. Which means, the rule I'm instituting is 3 strikes, you're caught.

 

Any other ideas on how to catch pokemon? Entangle seems like the obvious choice, but it's hard to simulate absolutes in the HERO system, and usually involves some kind of genre-related house rule. 

 

I could rule something similar to the free action to escape a Grab with Casual STR. .. give Poké Balls a STR score. This will probably make it too hard to catch high-powered pokemon with regular Poke Balls. 

 

I could just role-play it. Battle. The roll 10- on 3d6 and see what happens.

 

EDIT: Any other ideas greatly appreciated!

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Another possible build for Poke Balls I just thought of was to apply the Backlash Advantage. This would make the break-out chances proportional to the amount of HP the Pokemon has, that is, if we envision the pokemon attempting to break out of the Entangle with attacks... if it can do enough damage to the Entangle before being knocked out, it escapes. If not, then it knocks itself out, simulating capture. 

 

If this were the case, I might go back to my original idea of having Poke Balls be 3d6, and increase by 3d6 at each level, Master Balls being 12d6. Or greater. 

 

  Poké ball: Entangle 3d6, 3 PD/3 ED, Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Backlash (+1/2), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks, STR only to break out (+1) (97 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), Beam (-1/4), Can Be Deflected (-1/4)

 

EDIT: Took one modifier out.

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I like this topic, but thus far it seems like you are only considering this campaign from the perspective of the pokemon, and more specifically, from the perspective of converting the video game "Pokémon Red/Blue" to the HERO System. I would like to take a moment and look at this from another perspective.

In the games, pokemon are never seriously injured because pokemon weren't intended to be consumable resources. Having to replace a pokemon after spending time training it wouldn't be fun for the player (or even possible in some cases). However in the television shows and general lore, they certainly could die in battle against each other, to the environment, or in battles against humans. This might sound more than a little dark, but you also have to consider that things are going to happen in a table top game that game designers in a video game can prevent by programming, and writers can prevent by the power of plot. For example, what happens when a pokemon falls great distances, either because of knockback sending them off of a platform, or because team rocket dropped your stolen pokemon off of a cliff out of spite? What happens when a pokemon comes into contact with deadly hazards; such a pit of lava or vat of acid (team rocket would totally have vats of acid... just sayin)? In the lore (and I mentioned this in the other thread), it can be inferred that during wartime pokemon are used by soldiers against both humans and each other? Team Rocket still does so on any number of occasions, and Ash uses his Pikachu against members of team rocket on any number of occasions (that no one dies in these battles is mostly due to the target audience of these shows). What happens when a pokemon trainer gets gored by a Tauros or Nidoran in the safari zone because he was throwing rocks at it? What happens if Team Rocket drops a boulder on an eggsecute (just to see what happens)?

 

 

Were I a player building a pokemon trainer for a campaign (such as Teen Champions) where not all of the characters are assumed to be pokemon trainers (or they aren't all assumed to be following pokemon trainer etiquette):

A )  I would have a Pokebelt (my roster of available pokemon):

In a campaign where I can expect to encounter wild pokemon; a pokebelt would be a Variable Power Pool representing the pokemon I can currently use in battle. The VPP would be limited to Summon powers only, all of which would be Specific Beings (+1?)* with some level of Amicable (unless I was building a member of team rocket), Gestures (-1/4), and OAF (-1). I would put Dismissible (+5 CP) on the Summon so that I could return the pokemon to its pokeball without Dispel. The VPP would be limited such that It required I either have access to my personal computer back at my home/secret base to change powers, or that I "catch" a pokemon and have space in my VPP to "buy" it on the spot (otherwise it transfers automatically to my personal computer). The VPP would have the additional limitation on changing it that I have to have actually caught the pokemon I want to "buy" the ability to summon (see below). As a player I would arrange it so that my Control was large enough to summon anything within the limits of the campaign, and that my Pool was only large enough to hold six of my best Summons at a time; since they have OAF they would be actual pokeballs I which I carry on a belt (or in a bag) that others could attempt to steal from me.

*I've never understood why this modifier was an advantage... and under these circumstances I would instead treat it as a -1 limitation representing that the condition of my pokemon remains unchanged from the last time it was summoned, and that if my pokemon dies before being returned to its pokeball I lose that pokemon forever... thankfully this is a power bought in a VPP so I don't actually lose character points forever, which would be unfair and inappropriate to the concept.

In a campaign where I don't expect to encounter wild pokemon; replace this VPP with a multipower of up to six different summons representing pokemon I "caught" before the beginning of the campaign. The powers drop the "Specific Beings" element, and replace it with a limitation that prevents me from summoning a defeated pokemon until I have visited my personal computer to heal them (my PC acts as a pokecenter... much like in the games).

B )  I would have a Personal Computer (which acts as my bank of unavailable items and pokemon):

The personal computer likely doesn't have a mechanical construct per say. Its existence is mostly just a special effect of my power framework's limitations. It either "holds" all of the pokemon I've captured, but aren't currently paying points out of my VPP to carry or provides an equivalent to a pokecenter (depending upon the details of the campaign, see above). If it can hold items as well as pokemon, it might also act as my Armory for a resource point pool, or even as separate VPP of gadgets I can produce. It might have powers which are tangential to its purpose as a pokebank/pokecenter; such as bonuses to various skills representing access to the internet or applications I've installed on it.

C )  I would have a Pokedex (my pokemon encyclopedia):

This might be represented as the Analyze (pokemon) +6 plus Knowledge (pokemon) +6, OAF (-1).

D )  I would have empty pokeballs (a mechanic for capturing new pokemon):

If I am building the character for a campaign where I expect the encounter and capture wild pokemon, the mechanic used for pokeballs is the trickiest part of building a pokemon trainer. If I don't except to encounter wild pokemon, than I don't carry empty pokeballs, and the remainder of this section is irrelevant.

Given the material presented above I would represent standard pokeballs as Extra-Dimensional Movement (to the Personal Computer), Usable As Attack (Defense is a Successful EGO Roll, Being Conscious, or Not Being a Pokemon)*, Range Based on Strength, Gestures, OAF Expendable*, Activation Roll (11-)*.

*The defenses likely aren't common enough for a standard champions games, but for a pokemon style game this can be hand-waved as acceptable based upon the theme of the setting. If you need a logical reason why it only works on Pokémon and not humans, call it a genetic lock keyed to prevent humans from enslaving each other (In the movie Mew-Two custom made specific pokeballs without this genetic key)

*If the capture succeeds, that pokeball is now filled with that pokemon forever more, and if the capture fails, they break the pokeball, either way I can't reuse it.

*Better than normal pokeballs have better activation rolls, and might also be compound powers which include a Change Environment to reduce the pokemon's EGO roll against capture. Alternatively as GM, you could replace this modifier, and the EGO roll element of the power's defenses, with a Power Skill roll (called Pokémon Training) opposed by the pokemon's EGO roll. In that system better pokeballs grant bonuses to the Power skill roll, and harder to capture pokemon have higher EGOs (or bonuses to EGO rolls against capture.

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Re: Cantriped

 

Quite right, Cantriped! I had thought of many different ideas for Pokemon Trainers, but I hadn't put any of them down in this thread, except my pokeball idea. And I had also considered your initial idea of giving the Pokemon BODY and taking it as a real possibility that they die, just like what it could be in a "real" pokemon world. I think this is very plausible and very possible. My intention was to run a campaign with the same kind of flavour and atmosphere as the show. I thought bringing in actual death was an occasional happening, used to affect the narrative and the emotional power of the Pokemon/Human relationship. I did not want it to ever be the result of a simple pokemon battle. 

 

In the lore (and I mentioned this in the other thread), it can be inferred that during wartime pokemon are used by soldiers against both humans and each other? 

 Which other thread are you referring to?

 

Some of you other ideas:

A) Summon. This is a great build! Especially for the whole visual element of calling the Pokemon out of the pokeball. I will seriously consider this. However, there're certain drawbacks for me. One, it seems to take out the element of the relationship between the trainer and pokemon. While you could roleplay this however you want, Summon or not, I feel like the Pokemon acts more as a Follower, given that they are characters in the story (like Ash's Pikachu), and that they grow, gain experience points just like PCs, can gain or lose Complications (like Hunted), and act on their own accord apart from their Trainer, etc.

 

Furthermore, as I mentioned in my reasoning for not allowing VPPs, Summon's cost structure is the same as Follower (1 Character Point per 5 Character Points in the Summon, x2 the number of Summons for +5 Character Points), with the exception of putting Limitations or Advantages on them, so I feel like this is not helping the idea of balance. I'm not sure I would allow it based on that (A little bit like Wizards in D&D... they're fine at low level, but unbalancingly strong at higher levels). Cantriped, how do you view the idea that you're only allowed to give a Summon a certain number of tasks? Do you feel you're allowed to Summon creatures just for the purposes of training them in order to, thereafter, Summon more powerful creatures? It makes sense with character points, and experience and stuff, but, again, more like a Character that is a Follower, rather than a Summon.

 

Specific Being; this is definitely a +1 Advantage for a few reasons (in this context): 1. The bond between the Pokemon and the Trainer is a unique aspect, and often provides various bonuses in and out of combat; it would need to be replicated by the Specific Being advantage, rather than just Summoning any old Bulbasaur from the swamp. 2. For reasons of experience, not every Bulbasaur is going to be the same power level, and, yes, while the relative power of the Summon is based on how many character points you spend on it (so any Bulbasaur would naturally need to be built on the same points), specific moves, attacks, knowledge, and tactics would need to be replicated with the Specific Being Advantage. 3. If it dies, you lose that Summon permanently, including any of the benefits mentioned above. 4. I forgot this one, but there was another one, I swear! lol

 

B) I never truly understood the Computer system in that game... But a great suggestion, anyway.

 

C) Great idea!

 

D) While your Pokeball idea has merit, I prefer my own. Just personal preference, really, especially as the GM and knowing what kinds of things I'd be okay with hand-waving and not. Mostly, I feel that the Entangle gives a more realistic approach to allowing Pokemon to break out, rather than just an activation roll. It gives a definite purpose to attacking the Pokemon, or giving it a Status Condition, before throwing the ball. And other limitations like Can Be Deflected are also realistic in my opinion. But balancing the amount of Body PD/ED is a challenge. 

 

Thanks for all the ideas!

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A quick update on a play test I did a few days ago with a friend: We pitted a Pidgey against a Charmander. We figured out that Power Defense is a must, and that, in what is essentially a straight-up Blast vs. Blast (or Strike vs. Strike) the Status Moves can be too powerful. 

 

Solution: Power Defense is a must and should be purchased at comparable values to PD and ED.

 

It then follows that, given Flashes are excellent fighting techniques, and Psychich powers will definitely be built with the suite of Mental Powers available in the HERO System, Mental Defense and Flash defense should also be purchased at comparable values. 

 

I further recommend that, when building your own pokemon, whether high or low level, purchase Characteristics and Defenses first, and then see what's left over for any combat techniques or other tricks. 

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The other thread I was refering to was the one you started in "Other Genres" asking about what genre Pokemon falls into.

 

Isofar as tasks are concerned, I hadn't given them too much thought when I wrote the previous post. I expect each command counts as one task, making tasks functionally similar to PP in the games. However since you get an EGO roll to acquire more tasks every time they run out (at increasingly less likely rolls), it is actually much more like how Charizard never did what Ash told it too and loafed around. The end result of this mechanic in HERO is that pokemon become less and less willing to fight the longer a battle drags on, with the pokemon eventually having to be returned (Dismissed) in favor of another. Technically a Summoner can just "repop" a friendly pokemon to get a new set of free tasks, but since that is contrary to the etiquette of trainer battles, I might hand wave that doing so requires the same EGO roll as getting new tasks, even though the mechanics say otherwise.

 

Isofar as Specific Being goes, I think you are confusing it's mechanics with those of other related modifiers: 

1) Specific Being doesn't force or represent any kind of bond with the Summoner mechanically, that is what the Amicable and Annoyed modifiers do. Nor is Specific Being required to have a "unique" pokemon from others of its species... Unless you have purchased the Expanded Effect modifier, the default mechanics of Summon are that you define a "single type of creature" when you create the power, which is represented by having a unique character sheet. It doesn't actually matter if the "single type of creature" that you call a Bulbasaur is the same as the Bulbasaur someone else Summons, what matters is that you can't use the same power to summon any one of three different Bulbasaurs, each with different character sheets (IE one has Vine Whip and a Stretching movement power, and another that has poison powder and sleep powder, or a third that has Absorb and Leech Seed).

2) Specific Being doesn't allow the summon to gain experience like a Follower does... in fact if the Specific Being you defined is a player character or follower, when they gain experience you have to funnel more points into the summon or you cannot use the power to Summon them anymore, because Summon is defined as the ability to summon a [Fill in the Blank] Built on up to [X] Number of Points.

3) Losing the points associated with a power under certain circumstances is a limitation, not an advantage. One of the best reasons to buy Summon from a power-gaming perspective is that when they take BODY or Die, you haven't lost anything other than the END or Charges used to summon them, and can simply re-summon them. This modifier takes this benefit away, and charges the player literally twice as many points for the privilege of being able to lose them. In previous editions there was a modifier called Independent for things like magic items and such that represented that if you lost the item you also lost the points associated with it, and it was a -2 limitation. In 6th and CC/FHC you still have Charges Which Do Not Recover as an additional -2 modifier for Charges. I've never understood the value of Specific Being because it should be granting at least a +3 advantage worth of benefits in order to be a +1 advantages after you consider that it also suffers from the equivalent of a -2 limitation.

*Summons also multiply your economy of action by having their own Speed score and resources they can use to fight on your behalf, but that is irrelevant to this discussion because Trainer Etiquette will generally prevent the trainer from participating in battle themselves.

4) The only actual advantage of Specific Being is that if you define your Specific Being as someone important to you in the campaign (like Giovanni, or a fellow party member) you can bring them to your location, and force them to do you bidding with an EGO roll, in addition, if you sent Giovanni to scout the end of a dangerous tunnel for you, you can use this power to summon them back to you, and they will remember what they saw and be able to recount it to you. Obviously you can't do this to a pokemon because of the mechanics of having to return to and be summoned from a pokeball.

All of this being said, the reasons above were why I said Specific Being shouldn't be worth +1 and instead should be a hefty limitation... because the design of a pokemon campaign eliminates any possible advantage I can conceive of gaining from Specific Being, but still retains the -2 worth of limitation attached to it.

 

Regardless, I can certainly see good reasons for building pokemon as followers instead of using Summon (gaining XP for example). I also understand why you would prefer your entangle mechanic for capture (it is simpler for defend against and more accurately represents the flavor of escaping a pokeball), but I do have some counter points in regard to that.

1) Followers are assumed to be around all the time, which for Ash's Pikachu is true since it never stays in its pokeball anyway. But for most pokemon that is wildly inaccurate. Follower has no inherent mechanic for "returning" a pokemon. To return and release pokemon followers from a pokeball in a mechanically accurate way, you would still need a combination of EDM, UAA, OAF, Gestures (to return pokemon) and Summon (X-Point Pokémon)*, Dismissable, Expanded Effect, Specific Being, OAF (to release a pokemon), Gestures.

*This version of the Summon have to be bought up to the highest point Pokémon you've trained, and must be updated whenever you most powerful pokemon gains Experience, Expanded Effect is used to allow you to summon "any pokemon you have captured and are carrying the appropriate pokeball containing".

This combination of powers lets you return and release pokemon in a manner mechanically appropriate to the show... however it means you are paying for a Summon and EDM power in addition to paying for every pokemon you capture as a Follower, and whatever mechanic you use to capture them. I didn't do this in my previous example because I am a power-gamer and it was a waste of points.

 

2) Entangle doesn't remove the entangled creature from this dimension like a pokeball does, or change their effective size. Once inside the pokeball, you can't tell what is inside unless you already know (see all of the episodes were somebody pulls out the wrong pokemon). Nor can you affect them in any way.

For example: If you crush a pokeball with a rock, the pokemon emerges unharmed in the nearest unoccupied space. If you throw a pokeball in the river, the pokemon doesn't drown (as far as we know). If you leave the pokeball in a freezer the pokemon inside doesn't freeze to death. As far as we know Psychic pokemon cannot affect pokemon inside their pokeballs with mental powers. None of these facts are necessarily true of a pokemon trapped in an entangle.

As a compromise, I would suggest still using EDM as the base "capture mechanic" but making the "defense" against the EDM's UAA element based upon the mechanics of an Entangle instead of an EGO roll or Activation Roll (which I'm not sure if you noticed in my previous example I had both, so not only did the activation roll have to succeed, but the pokemon also had to fail an EGO roll to be captured)... Basically treat the pokemon as entangled (building the entangle either as a separate compound power, or using the APs of the EDM to determine it's effects), if they can break free, the EDM power fails and they return to this dimension, and if they cannot break free, the EDM power succeeds and they are placed in the "digital dimension", where pokemon can be transferred via Computer, or released/returned to for pokemon battles.

 

That is all I have for now, and I had to write it in a rush so there might be some errors I can't take time to correct. I am vastly enjoying this topic, but I'll be out of town for the next week or so. I will reply again if I have the time and internet access, but I am just let you know in advance so you don't think you are being ignored.

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Type-based Vulnerabilities and Resistances:

 

10 Vulnerability: 2 x STUN Fighting-type attacks (Uncommon)

 

9 All Damage Reduction**, 50% (20 Active Points); Only Works Against Uncommon attack (Ice-type attacks; -3/4), STUN Only (-1/2) 0

 

** "All" meaning it applies to PD (Physical attacks) ED (Special Attacks) and Variable (Different types of ongoing damage from Status Move, special effect depending on the move). I didn't pay extra for the Expanded Effect in this case, as I was just playing around with different builds (see below).

 

This build invites many questions:

 

1. Should Pokemon have to buy separate Damage Reductions for PD and ED, or can they get the same effect for only the cost of one, given the kind of damage system I've got going on?

 

2. Should they even pay for Damage Reduction at all, or get points for Vulnerabilities at all, or should it just be a function of the universe? I have seen that it can be somewhat unbalancing, with certain types with lots of resistances are at a loss for what else to spend points on. Fire is a good example. If made Inherent, as it should be, it would have 66 points to spend on six different 11-point Damage Reduction powers. And for a starter pokemon, that's maybe only built on 100 CP, that's a lot of points to spend on a Template. Similarly, Rock-types have 5 different Vulnerabilities, which would give them a butt-load more points to spend on other stuff, perhaps defenses. If each pokemon had three different Vulnerabilities and three different Damage Reductions, then it would be balanced, but that's not the case, and I'm not going to change the Type Chart for such purposes.  

 

The trouble is, the resistances don't necessarily get more powerful as the pokemon get more powerful. It's always a relative Damage Reduction. This is why I think it could be free. It's as if it's a fact of the universe, in a sense, and can't be altered, and everyone is subject to it equally. Not to mention, most of them are common-sense, like Lightning not doing any damage to Ground and more to Flying, Fire being Vulnerable to Water, Steel being resistant to Normal attacks, etc. These things a GM might declare anyway, in another context given the special effects. 

 

3. How to define the commonality of types? I decided that given the variety, the points were more evenly doled out if defined as Uncommon. Anything more common than that, and the above balance issues increase by a similar factor. This applies to a few other powers, as well, not just Damage Reduction. Are there, in fact, some types that are more rare than others, apart from the fact that Normal-types are definitely more common, and regionally speaking, there are more common types, but otherwise... Dragon, maybe. There are some pokemon that are more rare, but not their type. 

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Looks like I have time for one more post on my way out the door.

1)  Both Vulnerabilities and Damage Reductions can be tied to a Special Effect (such as "Ice-Type Attacks" or "Dark-Type Attacks") In which case they apply to all attacks of that type, regardless of their normal defenses (PD, ED, Flash, Power, Mental, etc).

 

2)  There was a value listed for 100% Resistant Damage Reduction in Fantasy HERO 5th (it might be in other sources, but I can't be sure...) of 120 APs (and 60 APs for 100% nonresistant Damage Reduction). For a campaign setting like this, I think its use is appropriate because pokemon tend to have lots of different types of attacks, so immunity to one type of damage isn't going to break the balance of the game.

 

3)  Personally, I don't think you should treat the Pokémon Types as a sacred cow unless you have a very, very good reason to do so. I suggest making your own Type Chart, with a reasonably balanced list of vulnerabilities and resistances. Then only make pokemon pay points for combinations of types that give them an unusual advantage in terms of resistances vs. vulnerabilities. I would suggest keeping the truly iconic types (Fire-Type, Water-Type, Electric-Type, etc), and merging types that are difficult to visually distinguish... Water&Ice, Ground&Rock&Steel, Normal&Flying, Ghost&Psychic, etc. In the rare cases where you want a pokemon resistant or vulnerable to an unusual type, just make them be resistant or vulnerable to it and note that fact as an unusual quality in their pokedex entry... you don't have to do pokemon type juggling to manipulate resistances and vulnerabilities like the games did because this is HERO system, and not a programmed video game where unique conditional weaknesses and strengths are more difficult to write in than new pokemon types.

 

4)  As far as commonality of types goes, "Normal" type moves are Common or Very Common, because almost every pokemon has (or has access to) several Normal-type moves over it's progression, nevermind that most of them would just be special effects for standard STR-based strikes in HERO (which really almost every creature has). Almost every other type is either Uncommon, or has a commonality that varies with generation.

For example, Ghost type moves were rare in 1st Gen, and there were almost no purely Ghost Type pokemon. Dark-type and Steel-type moves were fairly rare when the types were first released, but became more common as generations progressed and new moves were invented and old moves changed type (Bite becoming a fairly common Dark-type move for example). Even in later generations Dragon type moves remain Uncommon, even amongst Dragon-type pokemon.

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