bigdamnhero Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Mind Control is great for making people do discrete things - give me that, attack them, etc. But how do you handle using it to change people's minds in the long run? Say Character A put a handful of points into Persuasion, and wants to change someone's mind on a subject. It could be something as simple as "Pepsi is better than Coke" or more involved like "Support Candidate X." You make an opposed roll, Persuasion-vs-EGO, or maybe a couple of rolls tops, and if the rolls succeed the target is convinced. And it's generally assumed they're likely to stay convinced until/unless they're presented with new evidence and/or a subsequent Persuasion attempt. When we want to build a Character that's Extra-Super Persuasive, we typically see that built as Mind Control, which usually costs a lot more than simple Persuasion Skill. Initially, MC is likely to be much more effective. But because the target gets a new Breakout Roll at every time increment -- 6 in the first hour alone, and with a +1 at every step -- the odds that the target will still prefer Pepsi/Candidate X the next morning is practically negligible. Even if you were to throw on some kind of Uncontrolled or Constant Charge or something to prevent deterioration, the target still gets to keep rolling and is likely to make even an 8- roll in the first hour or so. And yes, we could use a Mental Transform to accomplish this, but I'm not looking to alter memories or make anything that rises to the level of a Complication. It seems like Mind Control ought to be usable this way -- and as noted, "Super Persuasion" is usually built as MC in book examples -- but how do you handle the fact that it fades over time? I'm not looking for new power or build; I'm looking for ways as a GM to adjudicate someone using "regular" Mind Control in this fashion without too much handwaving. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nijiru Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 There is a modifier in the APG called Long-Term Control. Part of it removes the deterioration of the Mind Control, the Breakout Rolls don't change over time. Another part pushes all of the Breakout Rolls after the first one step down the Time Chart, so the second one happens at 1 Minute instead of 1 Turn and so on. Page 108, Stop-sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 I think Mental Transform is more appropriate to do this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 You could use Change Environment that reduces Breakout Rolls with a long time that it lingers, and you can also use it as a super-skill build to reduce the ability of the target to resist a character's Interaction skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 Isn't there a Long Lasting advantage in one of the APG's to cover this? As I remember it keeps the breakout rolls from becoming easier with time. Alternatively, I"d allow a Mental Transform at varying thresholds. Cosmetic equaling +0 Mind Control, Minor , +10, Major, +20 and Severe. +30 and above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted October 20, 2016 Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 For every 5 pts in the Mind Control power, add +1 to the Persuasion roll. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary convinced me this was a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2016 For every 5 pts in the Mind Control power, add +1 to the Persuasion roll. OK, that's simple enough. For some reason, I always think of using Skills to compliment Powers, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted October 21, 2016 Report Share Posted October 21, 2016 For every 5 pts in the Mind Control power, add +1 to the Persuasion roll. There's solid precedent for this in 4e The Ultimate Mentalist (pg 38), where every 5pts in Mental Illusions adds +1 to PRE for PRE attack purposes. 4e The Ultimate Mentalist also deals with Mental Powers being used to supercharge PRE-based skills in the Limitations section of the book -- specifically via the Mental Power Based on PRE (-1/4) limitation detailed on pg 82. Skills are the way to go if you want a subtle, more natural approach to the long-term changing of a mind. If you want the hyper-natural, instantaneous about-face changing of mind, as others have pointed out, Mental Transform is the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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