Steve Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 One of the house rules I keep contemplating adding to my campaigns is adjusting the relative speed of various martial arts maneuvers. Instead of an OCV bonus or penalty, allowing it to be used as a modifier to a character's DEX-based initiative. Consider Fast Strike (+2 OCV) and Offensive Strike (-2 OCV). It seems to me that the Fast Strike could get a bonus in initiative compared to the heavier hitting Offensive Strike. A character could use the OCV bonus or convert it into +2 Lightning Reflexes instead and a character could take the -2 OCV penalty on Offensive Strike or change it to -2 DEX only for the purpose of determining initiative. This changes the tactical choices a bit and seems more like how martial arts work. In the case of a Block, the character gets their opponent's DEX+1 as their starting point and then adding an initiative bonus or penalty from a maneuver. In this setup, maneuvers with an OCV penalty would not convert the OCV penalty into negative DEX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 So a bruiser type could take all -OCV maneuvers and the effect would be that he "swung slower", but still hit just as accurately? And for 1 point (+2 DEX to act with all HTH) a character could remove the 2 OCV penalty from all martial maneuvers? Seems like a lot of something for nothing, when I think Martial Arts are already quite powerful to being with. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I would suggest just having the OCV modifier for the maneuver also modify the initiative of the action, instead of either OCV or Initiative. Going a step farther, defensive maneuvers, such as dodge and martial dodge, could increase the Initiative of the maneuver by their DCV bonus. Allowing you to declare a martial dodge ahead of a slightly faster opponent without having to abort or hold your action to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I would suggest just having the OCV modifier for the maneuver also modify the initiative of the action, instead of either OCV or Initiative. Going a step farther, defensive maneuvers, such as dodge and martial dodge, could increase the Initiative of the maneuver by their DCV bonus. Allowing you to declare a martial dodge ahead of a slightly faster opponent without having to abort or hold your action to do so. This is what I was originally considering doing, but I wasn't sure if it was fair to do it this way instead of the option between using for an OCV modifier or initiative bonus/penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I think giving players the option will create more unbalancing opportunities for powergaming than then denying them the option. Either way it will add an extra layer of complication to the combat system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Here's another option: allow Lighting Reflexes to be built into a manuever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Why does it need to be a part of the maneuver? It is available to them already for the same points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 I am often critical of the martial arts setup in Hero, as I think it loses something by being a patchwork. That said, I do like how it uses OCV, DCV, and damage classes. I would say in most cases, a fast strike is effective not because it beats the other person to the punch, but because it is faster than the other person's defenses. In which case, higher OCV is a perfect fit. Now, using your setup, it could also be used to beat someone to the punch, which would require a different build otherwise, but as long as the point totals are fair, the only problem I can see is just adding actions to combat, and that's always a personal preference thing, not really a problem. However, I do agree with the previous poster who saw issue with the ability to erase OCV penalties on all maneuvers. I could see that leading to problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 I like the idea in principle, and I don't think it would be unbalancing. But I question how it would actually work in gameplay, since the player would have to declare "I'm going to use a Quick Strike" before it's actually their action. I have long had a house rule on the books for Hurrying: basically Pushing for initiative rather than STR/damage/effect. But I can count the number of times it's actually come up on 1/5th of one hand. The players don't typically think of it until its their action, by which time it's too late. (I keep a SPD Chart spreadsheet on my laptop filled in with everyone's SPD & DEX so I can call out "You're up next" rather than going through the "okay, who goes on Phase 3? DEX 20, 19, 18, 17..." singalong. Easy enough to change DEX/SPD by cutting & pasting, but again the player would have to declare it before I call on them. Maybe if I had the chart projected somewhere they could see it and have a better sense of exactly who goes when? But that might lead to more metagaming than I prefer...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 This was something I was considering using first for a Ninja Hero campaign to give martial arts a bit more flavor. I appreciate the suggestions and thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 Ah, for a campaign where Martial Arts are the major focus, I can see trying it. Let us know how it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitekeys Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 I like the idea in principle, and I don't think it would be unbalancing. But I question how it would actually work in gameplay, since the player would have to declare "I'm going to use a Quick Strike" before it's actually their action. I have long had a house rule on the books for Hurrying: basically Pushing for initiative rather than STR/damage/effect. But I can count the number of times it's actually come up on 1/5th of one hand. The players don't typically think of it until its their action, by which time it's too late. (I keep a SPD Chart spreadsheet on my laptop filled in with everyone's SPD & DEX so I can call out "You're up next" rather than going through the "okay, who goes on Phase 3? DEX 20, 19, 18, 17..." singalong. Easy enough to change DEX/SPD by cutting & pasting, but again the player would have to declare it before I call on them. Maybe if I had the chart projected somewhere they could see it and have a better sense of exactly who goes when? But that might lead to more metagaming than I prefer...) I agree with this. It's a temporal nightmare, lol. Although, you could come up with a similar system to the Abort mechanism, but it works in reverse. It would basically be Delaying your action until the next phase, where you get to use your "fast strike" at a higher DEX, and then you get another action on your regular DEX. In practice it seems like you're going slower, because you have to wait until your next turn to move quickly, but then you get two phases on that segment. Unless this is how holding an action works already, in which case please taunt and ridicule me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 Unless this is how holding an action works already, in which case please taunt and ridicule me. No, you're correct. Normally if you Hold an action until the Segment when you have your next Phase, you can act earlier than your DEX if you wish, but you essentially lose the second Phase; you can't take two Phases in the same Segment. So your suggestion would be different all right. Tho I'm hesitant to open the door on allowing multiple Phases in the same Segment - it seems like that has potential to lead to a whole lot of munchkinism IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eepjr24 Posted October 28, 2016 Report Share Posted October 28, 2016 No, you're correct. Normally if you Hold an action until the Segment when you have your next Phase, you can act earlier than your DEX if you wish, but you essentially lose the second Phase; you can't take two Phases in the same Segment. So your suggestion would be different all right. Tho I'm hesitant to open the door on allowing multiple Phases in the same Segment - it seems like that has potential to lead to a whole lot of munchkinism IMO. nods. I agree. But the player can certainly act in whatever DEX they want on the segment BEFORE their next phase, which in most cases works fine and accomplishes the same thing. - E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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