What do your Palis look like?

[phydaux]

Does anyone play a pali, or have any one of your players in a campaign you ran played a paladin?  Or any other "hybrid" class that used both skill at arms AND magic?  What did the character look like?  How was the PC built?

[drunkonduty]

I did draw up an example paladin for a potential fantasy game not too long ago. It was a 150pt character. I don't have it handy but IIRC I gave him a basic Smite power that was extra HKA, no STR mod, only vs. evil and a protection vs evil that was DCV, costs end, only vs. evil. He must have had some other paladin powers because, compared to his sister, the example Ranger, he had precious few martial manouevres and skills. She was basically a skill monkey with some extra RKA only vs. Orcs. I might have given him a Bless Weapons ability, basically Change Environment to make weapons "good." Or was that the cleric?

 

Ya know, I should go home and check the character sheets before saying any more as I am just confusing myself. 

 

As to what he looked like... His sister thought he was far too shiny to be sneaking around in the forest and should damn well go home. (I built them as rivals.)

[Cantriped]

It isn't a paladin, and never saw play... but it is an example of a character which uses both skill at arms and​ magic:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/files/file/355-bell-cranel-heroic-fantasy/

I wrote up this character "just for fun"; but since you are asking for examples of how such a character might be built I thought I would post this up for your perusal.

Basically he is a knife-fighter, who happens to have learned a single spell from reading a magic book, and has a magic knife that was given to him by what you could call his patron god/guild master.

The magic knife is irreplaceable, and only magical in his hands, ergo why he pays points for it. The rest of his "normal" equipment came from various sources, most of it was bought with money, or given to him by other characters, he also loses or breaks most of it at some point or another; so these items do not cost him CP, even though some up them are superior to typical Fantasy Equipment.

[Cantriped]

In a past Champions campaign my wife played a character who was literally a "Paladin" summoned from the pages of a storybook. I don't have her character sheet handy, but the gist of her build was:

A Suit of Magical Armor which gave her Hardened, Impenetrable, Resistant Defenses and Damage Reduction.

A Magical Sword which was Armor Piercing and had the ability to Detect the "Presence of Evil".

A Spellbook (which was actually the storybook she was summoned from) that acted as the focus for a moderately powerful VPP.

A Typical array of combat skills (WFs, CSLs, Targeting PSLs, etc).

[Christopher R Taylor]

Paladins in my world are knights with additional power granted them by their temple.  They are very expensive and powerful as a result; they not only have knight training (mounted martial arts, weapon and courtier skills) but have special powers they can call upon.  At the same time, however, they must follow an extremely rigid code of behavior or they lose their special powers and are marked for other paladins to discipline.  Also, they cannot heal themselves, but heal rapidly in "holy" places.  You can find a preview rough draft of paladins on my website, a pdf of the write up.

[drunkonduty]

So I finally remembered to have a look at that example paladin of mine.

 

It comes with Power and Mental Defense. I call it " Guarded Soul." Represents wards & blessings to protect the soul from outside influence.

A Shield of Faith spell which gives bonus DCV, on a continuing charge.

And the Smite for some reason I drew up as an Aid to any one attack. 4 daily charges. Bonus damage only affects 'evil' targets. I look at it now and think, that's a goddammed complicated way of doing it.

Has some martial arts. Also enough skills and knowledges not to look a complete boob.

 

I'm thinking that Smite needs a complete re-write. Firstly, too complicated. Secondly, without the the D&D alignment system, how should I define, mechanically, what is evil? Or perhaps Evil. Might be better if it I nominate particular types of beings, such as Demons, Undead, Dragons, and other traditional foes of Paladins, rather than a broad, poorly defined category such as evil? And this now has me thinking how much of a limitation is "I do extra damage, but only against people I'd fight normally, but not against people I'll pretty much never fight" worth? Maybe I should choose one type of critter that is fundamentally opposed to/by the paladin's church and leave it at that? Smite vs. Undead, f'rex. In which case just using the Deadly Strike talent from Fantasy Hero is sufficient.

 

Apologies for musing at y'all.

[bluesguy]

In my son's game I player a warrior priest (kind of like a Paladin).  He can heal.  He has a number of spells which help him and his companions in battle.  He is my favorite character to play because his personality is so fun (IMO).  On missions he is all business.  Get in and get the job done.  When not on a mission he is all about having a good time.  Laying back.  Enjoying song, women, mead, and sleep.

[Christougher]

my first reply on the subject isn't so much about Paladins as it is about the divide between Cleric and Paladin.  Both fight, use spells, and worship a deity - where does one draw the line?  It's sometimes been difficult to build a Cleric without them essentially turning into a Paladin.  My current answer on the subject is that a Paladin is two thirds martial and one third spells, while a Cleric is one third martial and two thirds spells.

 

Why is that line fuzzy for me?  When I build Paladins they are a reflection of the deity's tenets and sphere of influence.  It's not always noble knights in shiny armor with longswords.  

 

The male half-orc healer and midwife, taking his name from the Goddess of Family/Life/Fertility, taking up arms to defend the clergy who won't do it themselves.  Mom was assaulted by an orc, but raised the child to follow the Goddess.

 

The headstrong female knight of Justice whose quested-for magical cloak cloak of faith became a major plot arc.

 

I'm working on a fallen Paladin, branded as such by his deity.  He refuses to discuss his fall and still does good deeds, trying for redemption he knows will never happen. 

[massey]

My paladins all have D10 hit dice and +1 attack bonus per level.  They get good saving throw bonuses and are immune to disease.  Later on they get the ability to turn undead and some low level spell abilities.

 

 

[Cantriped]

My paladins all have D10 hit dice and +1 attack bonus per level.  They get good saving throw bonuses and are immune to disease.  Later on they get the ability to turn undead and some low level spell abilities.

 

 

Nuu! What if we want Paladins who pilot giant robot lions which fuse into a larger giant robot knight to fight the evil space sorceress and her army of giant space monsters?

[Lucius]

A warrior who fights evil coming and going and will never turn their back on you!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the paladindromedary

[Wardsman]

I find Paladins and Clerics to be two sides of the same coin. After all they are both based on the same archetype, the Crusading Knight.

When begin converting Clerics and Paladins to a skill based system like hero. It becomes very obvious.

Clerics become better at holy miracles while Paladins are better at combat. But each can do both.

 

My suggestion is that their holy schtick be built on end battery or charges that only recharge when they perform rituals or prayer to their god.

As well as having a -1/4 limitation power only works with the favour of the god.

 

For a different take on divine warriors look at Rune Lords from Runequest.

 

Orlanth and Stormbull are gods that let barbarians be divine warriors who fight Chaos.

Zorak Zoran's Death Lords are an berserkers who rage at both Order and Chaos.

The Swords of Humakt are closest to D&D paladins but even they have a twist.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I see them being very similar as well; priests are the ones more interested in souls, in caring for the people, in teaching and healing, while Paladins are the ones that go out and dispense justice, fight evil, and protect.  Very similar missions but one is more proactive than the other.

[Wardsman]

I see them being very similar as well; priests are the ones more interested in souls, in caring for the people, in teaching and healing, while Paladins are the ones that go out and dispense justice, fight evil, and protect.  Very similar missions but one is more proactive than the other.

The problem is/was in AD&D that clerics still wore armor, carried morningstars and at low levels could hold their own with fighters

Even the earliest editions of the game they tried to come up with a non-warrior cleric. They were called cloistered clerics but were more of an npc class than a pc class.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I always saw the priest "class" as robe wearers, protected but not armored.

[sinanju]

I played a Paladin for a long while in a recent campaign. He was modeled after Ash from Army of Darkness. I specifically wanted to get away from the "Lawful Stupid" sort of paladin I've encountered too many times in D&D.

 

Ash (that was his name) was boastful, somewhat impulsive, and given to say whatever he was thinking with no filter--but he was a paladin all the same. He didn't countenance torture, murder, theft and the like but killing in self-defense or in righteous combat wasn't a problem. His favorite weapon was the boar spear (a long spear with a cross piece just below the blade); it was highly effective at preventing boars or undead from simply pushing their way up the shaft to get you. He had lots of skills and maneuvers that allowed him to use it effectively in close combat as well as at one or two-yard distances. In enclosed spaces, he fell back on the more traditional sword, but whenever possible, he preferred his spear.

[Ninja-Bear]

I always thought that Clerics were raised in the Church such as monks. Paladins were raised as knights but because of their Godly devotion, they are directly Bless by God.

[Zeropoint]

This is the point in the discussion where I like to point out that the word "paladin" has a long history and originally referred to a high-level government official. The word originates in Rome, referring to people who worked for the agencies on Palatine Hill (from whose name the word "palace" also derives). The concept of paladins as chivalrous warriors more or less started with the Twelve Peers of Charlemagne, who were mostly warrior types (like the famous Roland) but were a diverse lot and even included a sorcerer. Yeah, back then, a wizard could be a paladin, because "paladin" referred to your place in the org chart, rather than your abilities and proficiencies.

 

Having said that, I have to agree that the strongest distinction in my mind between a "cleric" and a "paladin" is that I picture a cleric in robes and a paladin in plate. I can't really generalize beyond that without having more information about the nature of magic and divine powers in the setting (which hasn't been specified).

 

In my homebrew fantasy setting, there's no such thing as divine magic. Lots of members of religious orders are also mages, but that has more to do with their access to an institution of higher learning and nothing to do with power of the gods. Divine intervention is either much more subtle than that or much, much LESS subtle. There's also no reason that a mage can't wear armor, so you could certainly have a warrior monk who knew magic, and that would look a lot like the D&D Paladin class.

 

I guess in my world, a "paladin" is just a priest who knows magic, is rich enough to run around in plate, and plans to get into enough trouble to make wearing plate worthwhile.

 

So, I rambled a bit, but there's your answer.

[Wardsman]

This is the point in the discussion where I like to point out that the word "paladin" has a long history and originally referred to a high-level government official. The word originates in Rome, referring to people who worked for the agencies on Palatine Hill (from whose name the word "palace" also derives). The concept of paladins as chivalrous warriors more or less started with the Twelve Peers of Charlemagne, who were mostly warrior types (like the famous Roland) but were a diverse lot and even included a sorcerer. Yeah, back then, a wizard could be a paladin, because "paladin" referred to your place in the org chart, rather than your abilities and proficiencies.

 

Having said that, I have to agree that the strongest distinction in my mind between a "cleric" and a "paladin" is that I picture a cleric in robes and a paladin in plate. I can't really generalize beyond that without having more information about the nature of magic and divine powers in the setting (which hasn't been specified).

 

In my homebrew fantasy setting, there's no such thing as divine magic. Lots of members of religious orders are also mages, but that has more to do with their access to an institution of higher learning and nothing to do with power of the gods. Divine intervention is either much more subtle than that or much, much LESS subtle. There's also no reason that a mage can't wear armor, so you could certainly have a warrior monk who knew magic, and that would look a lot like the D&D Paladin class.

 

I guess in my world, a "paladin" is just a priest who knows magic, is rich enough to run around in plate, and plans to get into enough trouble to make wearing plate worthwhile.

 

So, I rambled a bit, but there's your answer.

Good historical background. Didn't know about the sorcerer amongst Charlemagne's peerage.

 

Most people only know Cleric and Paladin from D&D usage. When you say paladin they mean a D&D style one. My Knowledge of D&D is dated to AD&D where Clerics wore armor and  arguably carried chivalric weapons. I assume current rules haven't changed them too much.

 

 

Originally in the Harn setting Priests didn't have spells. But everyone had Piety Points to ask for miracles. I kind of like that.

Glorantha also informs my ideas on holy warriors and priests.

 

A lot depends on the setting!  Is it based on Medieval Europe? Monotheistic vs Polytheistic?

 

What does your pantheon look like? What are powers of the Gods? Do they interfere directly and in an obvious manner? Or are bound  by some compact to do so in a mysterious and deniable manner(Harn)?

That will help define the followers of those gods and their powers. A Warrior of Raa or Horus might it some ways look like a Classic Paladin but differ in others. What about Warrior of Set? Set wasn't evil just a rival of Osiris and Horus. There is even a combined God Form of Horus & Set

 

Classic D&D Clerics and Paladins assumes a certain metaphysics that I would argue doesn't even work in most current D&D settings.

IE All clerics can Turn Undead even in polytheistic settings.

[Wardsman]

According to this Paladins have expanded somewhat in fifth edition.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?373592-A-Guide-to-the-D-amp-D-5th-Edition-Paladin-through-the-eyes-of-a-3-5-Player

 

Now here is my problem, why can't a ranger take Oath of Ancients?

It seems to me the weapon styles should be fighter/warrior related. The oath powers and other tricks could be powers based on the warrior dedicated himself to a cause/religion/ or power.

[massey]

I also think he's a knight without armor in a savage land.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sometimes paladins look like this

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

I view paladins as an elite, religious class of knights, Charlemagne or Knights of the Round Table, who vow not to their liege but to their faith.  The religious orders try to bring peace and justice and truth to the world, but sometimes they have to draw that sword, and that's when the paladins ride.

[Wardsman]

Sometimes paladins look like this

 

broken link

[Lucius]

I also think he's a knight without armor in a savage land.

 

His fast gun for hire heeds the calling wind

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Paladindrome, where do you roam?