Social Lim. for Villagers

[Ninja-Bear]

Im writing up some villagers and im thinking that in villagers would have a social limitation. The question is how many points. And perhaps a cleaver name for the disadvantage.

[TheDarkness]

I would see them as having a social advantage very locally, but otherwise, being disadvantaged towards those outside the village.

[Nothere]

Well it depends on the world your building. Are they indentured servants or free to go to the next village at a whim?

[bigbywolfe]

Need to know a lot more about the setting. Why is being a villager a social limitation? Isn't the majority of the populace villagers?

[Steve]

Perhaps the village has a dark secret of some kind?

[TheDarkness]

And perhaps a cleaver name for the disadvantage.

The Eddie Haskell Effect?

[Christopher R Taylor]

If the villagers are serfs and basically property of the local lord, that would definitely be a social complication.  They might just be really insular and suspicious like TheDarkness suggests.  They could just have so many local customs, inside jokes, and shared traditions they are nearly opaque to outsiders.  Maybe the local area has such a distinct dialect its hard to understand them if you didn't grow up there.  Maybe they all love Durian and stink horrendously.

[Ninja-Bear]

The game is a fairly generic fantasy/medieval europe.

[Steve]

Social Limitation: Serf

 

That's all I can come up with. As I understand it, a serf can't leave their village without their lord's permission.

[assault]

Most of the options I can think of would actually be Distinctive Features.

 

examples:

the villagers speak a distinct language

practice a distinct culture

follow a distinct religion

look different (genetics, they are immigrants or are a relic of an earlier population)

they could be part of a specific class/caste, with associated restrictions

 

"Cursed" would vary.

 

They could be their own little separate country

They could be an enclave of a neighbouring country

 

Ah, here we go: they are, for whatever reason, subject to different laws compared to their neighbours. This is definitely a social limitation.

 

They are a village that practices a different religion from their neighbours.

They are members of an "untouchable" caste, restricted in where they can live and to what professions they can engage in.

They are otherwise "impure" - "lepers", cursed, descendants of notorious cannibals...

Their community routinely engages in illegal activities - banditry, smuggling, piracy - and the community maintains a code of silence.

[Lucius]

Like any other Complication: Figure out how often you expect it to come up, or want it to come up, then figure out how major an impact it has when it does come up.

 

In a lot of generic medievaloid fantasy, the farmer's strapping son can take off with the adventurers and join their wandering rootless life with little consequence, and if this is possible, there should be no Disadvantage or Complication.  If he can't do that without breaking a law that someone in authority is liable to enforce, or if he can take off but his accent and behavior marks him as a lowly peasant and puts him at a disadvantage interacting with more urban or genteel people, then you have a Complication.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says that as for clever names, how about "One of the Village People?"

[Ninja-Bear]

Thanks for all the responses.

 

I envision that this woukd come up with dealing with Knights and Nobility, like less with when dealing with them. However on reflection, this might be more covered the perk Knight and Nobility.

[Wardsman]

Im writing up some villagers and im thinking that in villagers would have a social limitation. The question is how many points. And perhaps a cleaver name for the disadvantage.

I'm facing this myself with a Harn conversion. the Genteel folk will have perks in 5th terms while thralls, serfs and such limitations.

Haven't got details filled out yet.

 

One thing that often gets ignored in Fantasy games is the notion of chivalric weapons and how only nobility can wield them.

This varied with time and place though.

[bigdamnhero]

I envision that this woukd come up with dealing with Knights and Nobility, like less with when dealing with them. However on reflection, this might be more covered the perk Knight and Nobility.

Yeah, there's a fine lien between "My Perk" vs "Your Complication." And like a lot of Social Limitations, it very much depends on where you're at. Being a villager isn't a Complication in your village; but if you're going adventuring amidst the nobility, then "Low Born" is certainly worth something.

 

Here are the guidelines I wrote up for my current FH campaign. Note that this game is set in the year 1000 AD, when feudalism was still just getting going - I can see it being much more rigid in later centuries.

 

 

Social class is a big deal in a proto-feudal society. At the risk of oversimplifying:

• Slave: Social Limitation: Very Frequently, Major, 20 points or more
• Serf: Social Limitation: Frequently, Major, 15 points
• Freeman/Townsman: 0 points
• Lower Nobility: Fringe Benefit Perk, 2 points
• Higher/Landed Nobility: Fringe Benefit Perk, 4-8 points, requires GM approval
• Your birth order within your family also influences one’s rank and social standing, but is not typically worth points by itself.
• Being illegitimate may decrease the value of the Nobility Perk.
• Note that serfs & slaves are not generally allowed to carry weapons.

I can maybe even see a step above Serf but not quite Freeman that might be worth 5-10 points?

[death tribble]

I tend to agree with everyone else that people might be tied to the land and regard outsiders with suspicion and people who leave as deluded or even traitors. 

[Steve]

Yeah, there's a fine lien between "My Perk" vs "Your Complication." And like a lot of Social Limitations, it very much depends on where you're at. Being a villager isn't a Complication in your village; but if you're going adventuring amidst the nobility, then "Low Born" is certainly worth something.

 

Here are the guidelines I wrote up for my current FH campaign. Note that this game is set in the year 1000 AD, when feudalism was still just getting going - I can see it being much more rigid in later centuries.

 

 

Social class is a big deal in a proto-feudal society. At the risk of oversimplifying:

• Slave: Social Limitation: Very Frequently, Major, 20 points or more
• Serf: Social Limitation: Frequently, Major, 15 points
• Freeman/Townsman: 0 points
• Lower Nobility: Fringe Benefit Perk, 2 points
• Higher/Landed Nobility: Fringe Benefit Perk, 4-8 points, requires GM approval
• Your birth order within your family also influences one’s rank and social standing, but is not typically worth points by itself.
• Being illegitimate may decrease the value of the Nobility Perk.
• Note that serfs & slaves are not generally allowed to carry weapons.

I can maybe even see a step above Serf but not quite Freeman that might be worth 5-10 points?

I know it's not an accurate use of the words, but maybe peasant and perhaps villein could fit into that area? They could give you a 10-point and 5-point Limitation if you used both words. A villein could be the 10-point one and peasant the 5-point one.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah there was a step between serfs and freemen who would own a bit of land and sell their own goods but weren't free to travel

[Ninja-Bear]

Another quick question. If I said that these villagers were for an Oriental themed game, how would that effect the build?

[Wardsman]

Another quick question. If I said that these villagers were for an Oriental themed game, how would that effect the build?

Which country and time period? That is needed for east or west.

[TheDarkness]

Another quick question. If I said that these villagers were for an Oriental themed game, how would that effect the build?

The below is in reference to China.

 

That depends. For example, if it's a time of peace, then they are more than likely on the land farming, part of a family doing so, etc. Higher class individuals most likely aren't dealing directly with them, and their interactions with officials are likely limited. However, when corvee labor is needed, either for conscript armies or to work on public works such as the great wall or dykes or what have you, they are the main source of this.

 

However, their family may very well have a family member or more in the extended family who a lot of family resources are going into educating in the hopes that that member might become an official.

 

Although in practice maybe the line between peasant and influential person was hard to cross in China, philosophically, the state ideology of Confucianism dictated that one could rise from the lowest position to the highest, and many families focused energy on certain members' success to help the whole family. Further, there is an expression, 'heaven is high and the emperor is far away', basically, things could be very localized and have very little to do with the powers that be that remain far away, and sometimes, the local leaders, as far as local issues went, might not actually be little more than local boys playing interference to keep things the way they were. Or, they could be corrupt, domineering jerks.

 

Being educated, being cultured, are the highest virtues in this case. While it was suicidal for a cultured person to tell someone of the imperial line that they were wrong, it was also greatly admired and considered the responsibility of the educated, and a sign of their incurruptibility that even the imperial family had to show respect to.

 

So, the most learned man in the village has a position of honor. The officials as well. Soldiers in many, but not all areas, were looked down on. However, even influential families had poor relations that they could not simply pretend didn't exist without violating Confucian doctrine. Nor did they necessarily want to ignore such offshoots, where their needs weren't too burdensome.

 

Most villages do not have a local lord, there are no local lords. Officials, military leaders, etc. are most likely located in the more populated areas nearest the village, not at the village itself UNLESS they are from that village. Generals and high officials are generally not serving in their home province to limit their ability to rebel.

 

There is a premium to being laoxiang, local. Under that, officials and the highly educated obviously have the most status, or those whose family ties put them in close contact with those who are. A farmer is a farmer. But, we are talking about a highly social culture. I would be hard pressed to define a local as having a social complication within their own community unless they are a criminal(tatooed as such for all to see) or similar. Having culture is seen as transcending class in this case. The emperor climbing to the top of Mount Tai, the peasant playing some local song on the two stringed erhu, at that level things are distant the way the serf and the King are separate in European kingdoms, but at the village level, especially a small village, the difference, except economic, would likely not be great. More than likely, the people who would look down on the villagers are coming to the village periodically to maintain government over the village, not living there.

 

However, it is entirely possible for local heroes to live there who are influential from some past deeds or service, but are also still laoxiang, local.

 

If it is a time of war, or floods or natural disasters, or large public projects, then people are being dragged off to labor that they may not return from. So, that would probably count, now that I think of it, as a social issue.

 

This is all off the top of my head, and all based on China. My knowledge of Japan and Korea during such periods is more limited. Japan went a different direction with their Confucianism and had different geo-political influences, while Korea had everyone and their brother messing with them, and so I'm not sure the structure of their villages.

 

Major events in the life of a village would be a local being married off to someone of some note, buddhist and taoist rituals, troupes of opera performers arriving in the village. They might have local shadow puppet shows, and those taking breaks from their labor might sing and play instruments, practice their kung fu, play majiang or chinese chess or other games, drinking games, etc. They might have their own village kung fu, liquor, foods, etc.

 

Likely they would have a local dialect.

 

Now, some things were used in one era and not another, so I'm just putting out what I can think of.

 

At certain times, if one person was found to have rebelled or defied imperial authority, I want to say it was fifty people close to them were also to be punished; during such periods, people were loathe to risk that. That rule was not always in place.

 

In some regions, the customs could be different. The miao, I believe, would court their beloved by way of a contest. The would be suitors would take position at dusk out of sight on different sides of a valley and have a singing contest, and the woman would decide, or not, whose song most touched her heart. The miao also did not consider soldiering dishonorable, and gave women more choice in whether they wanted to marry than the Han generally did.

 

Married women of well to do families often held great power within the home, but had to take great care whom they dealt with outside of it for fear of damage to their reputation. On the farms, the women did not have that rule, as they had to work outside in the fields.

 

Hope something in that mishmosh I just wrote helps.

[TheDarkness]

In Japan, the thought that comes to mind is that it depends who the villagers are.

 

If they are Barakumin, essentially the descendants of anyone who worked with death, including tanners and things like that, then yes, they would have a social issue(they still do in modern Japan, talking about descendants of people whose families haven't dealt with dead flesh as a trade in 100 years, people who are genetically Japanese). Both Buddhism and Shintoism in this case work against them as being 'unclean'.

 

I'm trying to remember the name of one tribal group in Japan, in Feudal times, I'm not sure what they were doing.