The Blackball Questions

[steriaca]

I asked Mr. Long these two questions, so I'll ask the group the two questions. It pertains a rookie villain I have planed named Blackball. Blackball is a guy who is able to surround his body with an orb shaped forcefield.

 

Question one: Seeing that the orb is an orb, Blackball is unable to be affected by choak holds, as long as the field is up. How do you write that up?

 

Question two: Once the field is up, nobody can see through it except Blackball. How would you simulate this? Invisibility, only to mask actions?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Barrier for the first part would work, its a physical structure that would prevent touching them.  As for the second, put blocks sight on barrier with personal immunity or just penetrative sight (or adjacent, just outside the barrier).

[TheDarkness]

My main question is, depending on the nature of the force field, there may be no need at all to build the defense against chokes, it may be included in the force field. So, if the field has resistance defence, that would nullify the NND of the choke. Further, if it has any PD/rPD, then you couldn't do a choke on him or her in the first place without overcoming that, and since the choke itself cannot overcome that, since it's damage is NND upon completion of the grab, then I'm thinking there is no further build needed, because the grab or choke cannot happen.

 

Further, if there is no defense already on the field, then, unless I'm misunderstanding things, one point of PD on the orb effectively nullifies grabs and chokes, doesn't it?

 

I mean, maybe I'm misunderstanding things, but if I have a force field in a sphere around me, you have to bypass or shut down that force field to choke, becuase you need to grab. But, the grab could not do any damage whatsoever to overcome the force field, since the only way it does damage is by first grabbing the neck, and the force field has no neck.

 

So, I suppose, thinking about it, a barrier with 1 point of defense with the limitation(although, I could see this being seen as an advantage) only applies to chokes would nullify all chokes, as far as I can tell.

 

If you really wanted him always immune to chokes, then build two barriers, one that does all the big stuff, and one that is a single point that works against grabs and chokes only. I feel dirty writing that, it's uber munchkiny, but the second barrier, since it effectively doesn't exist for all the attacks that could possibly cause it damage, is a strong defense.

 

I'm thinking there must be a rule against that that I'm not thinking of. There must be.

[steriaca]

Call me crazy, but I don't lile the Barrier solution. One, he can only englobe itself. Two, it is moble with him, unlike barrier, which normally needs to be anchored, and also immobile. So, I would like to do this with Resistant Protection.

[TheDarkness]

Call me crazy, but I don't lile the Barrier solution. One, he can only englobe itself. Two, it is moble with him, unlike barrier, which normally needs to be anchored, and also immobile. So, I would like to do this with Resistant Protection.

Ah, that's right, I was worried. To do what I said above would require making the AOE mobile, which would make every time he or she moved it into an attack action.

 

I feel cleansed.

 

But(inner munchkin rallies) there is nothing to stop him from doing resistant defenses and have such a barrier power only when he stands in one place, after all, what's a one point barrier among friends?

[Hyper-Man]

I am pretty sure that Barrier can be centered on the owner of the power the same way that Darkness can via Self Only and other Modifiers.  It's basically a version of what Violet did in The Incredibles except that the Barrier is Opaque.  It's expensive but doable.  Figuring out how for the character to see out of the Barrier is another complication. Again, doable but likely expensive.

 

HM

[TheDarkness]

I am pretty sure that Barrier can be centered on the owner of the power the same way that Darkness can via Self Only and other Modifiers.  It's basically a version of what Violet did in The Incredibles except that the Barrier is Opaque.  It's expensive but doable.  Figuring out how for the character to see out of the Barrier is another complication. Again, doable but likely expensive.

 

HM

But moving it becomes an attack action. That's a big sacrifice.

[Deadman]

I think that Barrier works best for what you are describing.  Though it would take the GM's permission to allow it to move with him with the Non-Anchored Adder and Mobile Advantage.  You may also want to take the Feedback Limitation to make it work like Resistant Protection.  Here is how I would build what you are describing.

 

37 Force Globe:  Barrier 20 PD/20 ED, 0 BODY (up to 6m long, 2m tall, and 1/2m thick), Non-Anchored, Opaque Sight Group, Mobile (+1/4) (111 Active Points); Feedback (-1), No Range (-1/2), Restricted Shape: Globe (-1/4), Costs 1/2 END (to maintain; -1/4)

 

Of course you will also need...

 

6 Partially Penetrative: Through Force Constructs with Sight Group (10 Active Points); Only For Personal Force Bubble (-1/2), Linked (Force Globe; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4)

 

The only down side that I can see with this build is that if you are hit with an attack that does more than 20 BODY it will Drop and you will have to re-establish it.

[massey]

Answering from a 5th edition perspective:

 

A simple Force Field would stop the NND.

 

For the blackness, I'd make it Darkness, personal immunity, no range

[Tasha]

How about a simple construction that allows the Globe to move and not be blown down by a huge attack

Resistant Protection (2 PD/2 ED) (Protect Carried Items), Usable By Other (+0), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally, Recipient must remain close to Grantor, Area Of Effect (1m Radius; +1/4) (20 Active Points)

[Nolgroth]

Two options I can think of...

 

Blackball Barrier:  (Total: 60 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Barrier 5 PD/5 ED, 0 BODY (up to 1m long, 1m tall, and 1/2m thick), Non-Anchored, Opaque Sight Group, One-Way Transparent (single attack or specific group of attacks; +1/2) (57 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Costs Endurance (to maintain; -1/2), Cannot Englobe (-1/4), Restricted Shape (-1/4) (Real Cost: 23) plus Life Support  (Immunity: Asphyxiants) (3 Active Points); Linked (Blackball Barrier; -1/2) (Real Cost: 2)

The Life Support option is just because it was closest to being choked. I am guess that most Choke Holds are NND/AVAD-All or Nothing,  and need an appropriate defense. 

 

Alternately...

 

Blackball Barrier Variant 2:  (Total: 34 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Resistant Protection (5 PD/5 ED) (Protect Carried Items) (25 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 20) plus Darkness to Sight Group 1m radius, Personal Immunity (+1/4) (6 Active Points); Costs END To Maintain (Full END Cost; -1/2), Linked (Resistant Protection; -1/2) (Real Cost: 3) plus Life Support  (Immunity: Asphyxiants) (3 Active Points); Linked (Resistant Protection; -1/2) (Real Cost: 2)

 

I used the Life Support option as a quick shorthand. Otherwise you could build it with Self-Contained Breathing, Only as a Defense (-2). Either way comes out to ~3 points. I think the first variant is a closer representation to what you described while the second one has a cheaper Active Cost. If that is important to the campaign, the difference might mean you could buy up the defenses more with the second variant. It also means that the second version costs less END. Interestingly enough, the Real Cost of Variant 2 gets higher the more defenses you buy. For example, I bumped both up to 8 rPD/8rED and the Real cost became 30 and 32, respectively.

[TheDarkness]

EDIT: [My original post I just edited away was totally wrong, tell no one]

 

If you want no chance of chokes' damaging effects, resistant defense will do it, as an area of effect of resistant defense gives everyone, as Tasha built, total protection from the damage from the chokes' NND. That's the cheapest option while having it as an area of effect.

 

Barrier, being a physical barrier with no neck, absolutely makes it impossible without taking out the barrier to choke those protected, which includes preventing being held in a choke, even if the choke cannot damage you, since a requirement for choke is that it must grab the neck, no damage otherwise. But it's way more expensive.

 

No matter what, to move with it will count as an attack action in either build.

 

I suppose the question is, is this globe something he can put around other people, or is it really a personal field that just would occupy the hex he is in? Or could be both? And when we talk about force field, we're talking PD, ED, or both?

 

If it's a personal shield, he loses a lot of effectiveness by using the barrier option, because he loses attack actions, unless he doesn't plan on moving.

 

For personal shields, Steriaca and Tasha have sold me on the value of resistant protection for that part of things, it's much more economical, and, even if he can extend protection to others, when he isn't, he may not want to have the limitation that comes with mobile AOEs where if he wants to move, he has to use an attack action.

 

Further, for just the effect of protecting against chokes, barrier is not only overkill, but disappears the moment the barrier's body is gone, whereas resistant protection remains no matter what. More specifics on the overall nature of these force fields might lean toward one way or the other, methinks.

 

Oh, and Nolgroth, the trump to choking NND is resistant protection on the neck(I'm pretty sure they could have just said resistant protection, since it seems like that covers it), rigid armor on the neck, or Life Support: self contained breathing).

 

The one downside to resistant protection is that, even if the NND cannot damage, you are still grabbed and held. Barrier is the most literal interpretation, as long as it lasts and he is in it, no one can choke or even grab him unless they have some way to get inside the field.

[dmjalund]

Is cheek NNd? Then anything that defends against to, stops it completely.

[Crusher Bob]

Is the globe supposed to be up 'all the time'? If so, doing it as PD/ED and growth (you turn into a big sphere) might work.

 

Or is he supposed to be able to bring others inside the sphere with him?

 

Does the sphere prevent him from doing things like going through doors or crawl spaces? What about picking things up with his hands?

 

What's the exact advantage of no one being able to see what he is doing inside the sphere? If flame powers come out of the sphere and set people on fire, then it's just like your hero having flame powers and being in the form of a big black sphere, isn't it?

[Doc Democracy]

Obviously, in game terms, avoiding the choke means defending against the mechanic used.

 

The official choke says that the defence against this NND is having rigid armor on the neck, Resistant Protection PD on the neck, or Life Support: Self-Contained Breathing. To ensure the globe defends against choke, you need to have one of these defences. If your GM is content for your globe to be considered rigid armour on your neck , or resistant PD on your neck then you are good to go. Other than that you simply add self-contained breathing.

 

The other aspect is the grab. I would be tempted, if you don't like the barrier idea, is simply to have additional STR only versus grabs. I like the idea of this because it means that while random martial artists cannot choke, a brick with enough strength might squeeze the globe to achieve a choke. It would look cool in a comic so I think it is my favourite way to do it...

 

 

Doc

[TheDarkness]

When you buy resistent defense, don't you have it all over your body unless you specify otherwise? I find that a strange requirement. It would be like a wrenching attack as NND, with the defense being 'stretchable hands' and then asking people who had stretching, I'm sorry, did you buy stretchable hands? No? Such a pity...

 

I am against anything that would motivate players to have to specify exactly what parts they can stretch how much. Not all of my friends are 100% highbrow.

[TheDarkness]

Barrier globe=absolutely no chance whatsoever of being choked as long as the globe is up, barring people who can bypass the globe

Resistant Defense=absolutly no chance of choking damage

 

It seems like any of the builds for this we're seeing as a byproduct logically make choking not worth it. I really feel there's something in how the super is pictured by the OP that I'm missing, I'm wondering if the field is actually less directly protective than we're picturing, and it is actually a product of not being able to see him that stops chokes.

 

Otherwise, pretty much most of the ways we can imagine to build a force field will make choke holds a highly unattractive option.

[Doc Democracy]

I don't have a lot of problem with that as choke holds don't feature in most of the superhero comics I read.

 

I see the manoeuvre as something more common in spy and fantasy style games where natural resistant PD is much less common and sectional, hard armour more so...

[Hugh Neilson]

When you buy resistent defense, don't you have it all over your body unless you specify otherwise? I find that a strange requirement.

 

Would a bulletproof vest protect you against a choke hold?  Most Supers are immune, but Hero is not designed exclusively for Supers.

[TheDarkness]

Would a bulletproof vest protect you against a choke hold?  Most Supers are immune, but Hero is not designed exclusively for Supers.

Oh, I get that, but usually that would be implied in the build, like the bullet proof jacket example.

[steriaca]

Ok. I want to go with Resistant Protection. As for the penalties for the shape of the forcefield, yes he can't grab things outside the field once it is up. And he needs space to go through some doors once it is up. Sounds like a low level Physical Complication. "Forcefield Orb Prevents Use Of Hands And Needs Room To Enter/Leave Buildings", Frequently, Slightly (might be Infrequently instead, considering it is a self imposed limitation).

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think as a GM you can rule that if you attach the AE to the character it moves with them; after all damage shields don't require any sort of special maneuver to move with the character, and there are several other examples in the rules of an area power moving with the character by default.

[steriaca]

What if the area of effect was basically him and the slight area around him. The area is not measured in feet, but in inches. Wouldn't a spear shaped (orb shaped) forcefield be just a special effect then?

[TheDarkness]

What if the area of effect was basically him and the slight area around him. The area is not measured in feet, but in inches. Wouldn't a spear shaped (orb shaped) forcefield be just a special effect then?

Especially if you do it as resistant protection, it seems like no big deal.

 

The field of darkness is another thing, but that can be linked, I would think, as opposed to needing to be in the same build.

 

Does he or she have some offensive capability?

[Christopher R Taylor]

If you bought it as Resistant Protection, I'd make sure to buy it with the "protects carried items" adder, and treat that as a "you can't touch me" special effect.