Newbie question: non-killing damage is normal?

[Christopher R Taylor]

yeah let us compare the weapons

 

Warhammer (authentic): 

 

Quarterstaff (authentic period image):

That's gonna hurt to get bopped with, but the warhammer "will keel," as they say on Forged With Fire.  Its a deadly weapon that most certainly will draw blood with is pointy metal head.  Especially if you use that other end with the spiky bit.

[knasser2]

A quick question close enough to the topic that it fits, imo. I notice in FH that the Warhammer has a little note reading: "Weapon has a +¼ Advantage that affects how damage is added with STR, velocity, and the like (see 6E2 99-102)"

 

I've looked at the relevant pages but I don't quite understand it. Am I supposed to be moving one to the right on the DC table (in which case the damage drops from 1d6+1 to 1d6 which seems a weird sort of 'advantage' to me). And also why would you not simply put a different value in the damage column if that's what it does.

Or is it supposed to be adding to the wielders Strength before calculation somehow?

 

As with most cases of major confusion, I am probably missing something very fundamental.

[jdounis]

A quick question close enough to the topic that it fits, imo. I notice in FH that the Warhammer has a little note reading: "Weapon has a +¼ Advantage that affects how damage is added with STR, velocity, and the like (see 6E2 99-102)"

 

I've looked at the relevant pages but I don't quite understand it. Am I supposed to be moving one to the right on the DC table (in which case the damage drops from 1d6+1 to 1d6 which seems a weird sort of 'advantage' to me). And also why would you not simply put a different value in the damage column if that's what it does.

Or is it supposed to be adding to the wielders Strength before calculation somehow?

 

As with most cases of major confusion, I am probably missing something very fundamental.

 

When an attack has Advantages that "directly affect how the victim takes damage" it would be unfair the same amount of added damage(damage classes, DCs) to have an equal effect to applying them to an attack that hasn't got any such Advantage or of fewer value.

 

for example:

 

If you have a Blast 5d6 with Armor Piercing(+1/4) and 4m Arrea of Effect(+1/4) that would cost you 5*5  * (1 +1/4 + 1/4)= 25 * 1 1/2 = 37CP that means each DC(damage class) costs you 7,5 CP(rounding comes in the final cost)

so it would be unfair when you add damage like 5 DCs to make it a 10d6 Blast, you have to take in account the increased cost per DC compared to an unadvantaged power. So when you add 5 DCs  you finally

Add 5 / 1,5  = ~3,33 or 3DCs. 

 

Hope that helps!

[knasser2]

When an attack has Advantages that "directly affect how the victim takes damage" it would be unfair the same amount of added damage(damage classes, DCs) to have an equal effect to applying them to an attack that hasn't got any such Advantage or of fewer value.

 

for example:

 

If you have a Blast 5d6 with Armor Piercing(+1/4) and 4m Arrea of Effect(+1/4) that would cost you 5*5  * (1 +1/4 + 1/4)= 25 * 1 1/2 = 37CP that means each DC(damage class) costs you 7,5 CP(rounding comes in the final cost)

so it would be unfair when you add damage like 5 DCs to make it a 10d6 Blast, you have to take in account the increased cost per DC compared to an unadvantaged power. So when you add 5 DCs  you finally

Add 5 / 1,5  = ~3,33 or 3DCs. 

 

Hope that helps!

 

I think so? Let me try this.

 

The Warhammer is listed as doing 1d6+1 damage, has a length of M, an OCV modifier of -1, a STR Min of 13 and a +1 to STUNx. (It also has 1½H listed under Notes). N.b. this is a HTH KA.

 

So If someone attacks and hits with the basic attack, that's just 1d6+1 Killing Damage. But if they do something that increases the damage by 4DC. Say some Martial Strike maneouvre, I would not step down the Damage Class Quick Reference table four rows, I would step down four rows and over to the right by one? Because the +¼ modifier means I have to divide the 4 DCs by 1.25. So the Warhammer would now do 2d6 Killing Damage for the extra four DC rather than the 3d6-1 if I went straight down?

[jdounis]

I think so? Let me try this.

 

The Warhammer is listed as doing 1d6+1 damage, has a length of M, an OCV modifier of -1, a STR Min of 13 and a +1 to STUNx. (It also has 1½H listed under Notes). N.b. this is a HTH KA.

 

So If someone attacks and hits with the basic attack, that's just 1d6+1 Killing Damage. But if they do something that increases the damage by 4DC. Say some Martial Strike maneouvre, I would not step down the Damage Class Quick Reference table four rows, I would step down four rows and over to the right by one? Because the +¼ modifier means I have to divide the 4 DCs by 1.25. So the Warhammer would now do 2d6 Killing Damage for the extra four DC rather than the 3d6-1 if I went straight down?

 

If  you want to use the table, you first locate the Damage of the Warhammer in the +1/4 column(5DCs) and then you add 4 Unmodified DCS (not divided by 1.25) so now your final damage is 2d6+1 ( that means 3 MODIFIED DCs added or a whole Killing Damage Die)

 

Or else you can do directly the calculation with the division yourself and add the damage. 

[knasser2]

If  you want to use the table, you first locate the Damage of the Warhammer in the +1/4 column(5DCs) and then you add 4 Unmodified DCS (not divided by 1.25) so now your final damage is 2d6+1 ( that means 3 MODIFIED DCs added or a whole Killing Damage Die)

 

Or else you can do directly the calculation with the division yourself and add the damage. 

 

Ah. Of course - I start off in the +¼ column. Okay, now it makes a lot more sense. Thank you. I reckon I've got it now. Though I'm unsure exactly why the Warhammer has a +¼ in the first place. There doesn't seem to be anything special about it except for the +1x STUN which I would have thought is more than balanced by the -1OCV and higher strength minimum. Maybe I'm just underselling how good the +1x STUN bonus is.

 

 

EDIT: I clicked on Mark Solved because I figured all my questions in this thread had now been answered, but it marked the above as the "Best Answer" which didn't seem fair when so very many replies in this thread have been so helpful (the above included). So I unticked it.

[Hyper-Man]

An increased STUN multiple can be important because the final STUN damage total is not dependent on the target actually losing any BODY.

 

HM

[massey]

Ah. Of course - I start off in the +¼ column. Okay, now it makes a lot more sense. Thank you. I reckon I've got it now. Though I'm unsure exactly why the Warhammer has a +¼ in the first place. There doesn't seem to be anything special about it except for the +1x STUN which I would have thought is more than balanced by the -1OCV and higher strength minimum. Maybe I'm just underselling how good the +1x STUN bonus is.

 

 

EDIT: I clicked on Mark Solved because I figured all my questions in this thread had now been answered, but it marked the above as the "Best Answer" which didn't seem fair when so very many replies in this thread have been so helpful (the above included). So I unticked it.

 

A -1 OCV is a flat 5 point reduction in the overall cost of the warhammer.  It gives the same penalty regardless of whether your OCV is 4 or 14.  It doesn't "scale up".  A +1 Stun Multiplier is a +1/4 Advantage to the power because it does scale up.  Every additional point of damage will do more Stun.  Each damage class is better because of the Advantage.

[Killer Shrike]

The separation between killing and normal damage is one of my favorite parts of the system. However, if you want to run a game where lethality is the typical form of damage (such as D&D style fantasy, for instance), then it can be a bit awkward. The thing to keep in mind with the Hero System however, is that it is a universal toolkit system intended to be used for a variety of genres and tones and it is intended that the GM will dial in options to suit whatever particular feeling they are going for. When it comes to the area of lethality of damage, the system is especially dense with options both official and unofficial to dial in a wide variety of lethality levels from Nerf to instagib.

 

As it happens, I have a set of pages on my site that go into lethality options, and it may be helpful. 

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/shrikeLethalityOptions.aspx

 

Oh, I forgot to mention, I also suggest some weapon & armor variants as well, beyond just using the system as written. Here they are:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/armamentsNotes.aspx#WEAPONS & ARMOR VARIANTS