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Problems With Fantasy Hero Complete and Newbies


Brian Stanfield

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I would be happy to port one of my introductory adventures to Hero with some sample characters to run through it as a Welcome To Fantasy Hero adventure. I'm still learning the system but I'm a strong writer with a good ear for dialogue, plot and character. If someone will help me with rules and stats, I'm very happy to try.

 

Knasser, I was thinking that I should do a document that walked someone through making a character in preparation for an introductory scenario.  I am happy to collaborate if you want.  DM me if you have a definite idea.

 

Doc

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Yes! This! This is exactly what I'm talking about!  A list of spells and their effects is infinitely more useful to a beginner than how it is built. That's more advanced stuff, and is the eventual goal of players who really love the system, but as far as simplicity and ease of use, including the "recipe" with each character, spell, weapon, etc. is just information overload! When newbies see all the crazy modifiers and the different kinds of calculations going on, it seems to be a real turnoff. If I can hide much of it for beginners, I think it would be especially useful!

 

I think the rulebook would benefit from showing the difference there can be between a sheet for designing/building a character and a sheet for playing one in-game.  many of the folk on here want the builds visible as it provides them with good knowledge of what is possible but I think most new people want only the absolutely necessary information like what I roll for damage and how much END it takes to use it (as well as the cool descriptive stuff that bring home the game).

 

If you are not careful you will set me off on my hobby horse of the character sheet being the game's GUI for players.

 

Doc

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Being one of the people whose frustration spawned this thread, I'd just like to say that despite my frustration I have found the willingness of people to help on these forums unsurpassed and as I remarked in the other - question threads are like icebergs. You only see the complaint and not all the respect someone may also have for other parts of the system. Hero is impressive and rigorously thought out and I'd like to say that up front.

 

Ah, yes, now we're getting down to business. Thank you! This is what I'm looking for.

 

​I'm not going to respond to the rules issues (Martian Logic, et al). As you rightly point out, this is how the game was built, and is a separate consideration. I'm looking for how we can better translate the game, as it is, to new folks who want to learn.

 

#3 No rocks to cling to.

Look at D&D 4e or 5e. You open the book and you see a bunch of classes. And they all have levels. Almost immediately you have a feel for what is powerful and what is not, what someone is good at and what someone is bad at. Open the Monster Manual and what do you see? Goblins are Challenge Rating 1, Dragons are Challenge Rating 15. And so on... Before anyone reaches for their keyboard to say how classes and levels aren't how Hero works, I know that. And I'm not advocating them per se. What I'm doing is highlighting that D&D provides context, familiarity. Put simply you have a picture of the completed jigsaw on the box. Hero doesn't because by design it is a "make the picture you want" jigsaw. Which is a tremendous strength and advantage. But how do you get that tremendous advantage without inviting the flipside which too much freedom gives? Here's a fact: The most useful thing in the 6e entire books I found when I was trying to understand it all the other day, was 6e. vol1, pg. 35. To save anyone looking it up that's the table labelled "Character Ability Guidelines" that says what a normal person has in OCV, DC, Char, etc.

 

I want to repeat that because I think it's both surprising and important. The most useful thing to me in understanding the rules wasn't the basic concepts section or the introduction to Powers or the Character Creation guidelines. It was a table showing what values actually meant.

 

​This is a great way to describe what my buddy was struggling with. He said almost exactly these same things when we spent Christmas looking through the books and stuff. His reaction was, "Where are some charts for me to look at?" My answer was, well, here's one, there's another one elsewhere, look in the back of the book for another, and the Damage Class chart isn't in Fantasy Hero Complete at all, so I'll grab a different book for you to look at. 

 

He wanted to look at charts to ground himself, and I think this is a very valuable insight you have presented. It's not that the terms all fit together, but how they fit together that is puzzling. In all honesty, Older character sheets used to include starting characteristics so that players could look at what is "standard" for a beginning player. This one little fact is so intuitively useful, and it's been removed from the later edition character sheets. And when I gave him an equipment list to play with (from Fantasy Hero 6), he could see weapons and how they fit in, and then things started to click a little more.

 

As for balance, I think you bring up an interesting problem: how do we actually see​ game balance. Those of us raised on D&D are used to looking for levels, classes, and such. But in all honesty, when I picked up D&D 5e last spring (after a long hiatus from AD&D), my mind was squirming just as much. DC? What happened to my thief's skills? How many bonus actions do I get? I jumped in with both feet and learned as I went. D&D makes that easy. But I immediately saw all these unbalancing things going on: cunning actions, bonus actions, things like that, gave some players lots of actions, and I got to shoot one measly arrow and then wait for next turn. Each game will have these issues.

 

But to come back around to Fantasy Hero, the points are how we compare and show game balance. This needs to be emphasized more, I think, in the introduction to Hero System. To go back to your Zen-like exercise, it seems to me that the best way to clear the mind up front is to intentionally and explicitly clear out levels, classes, etc., and drive home the point system. This is the primary reason I switched from D&D: I didn't want the constraint of classes. Plus the combat is so much more fun for creative players.

 

So, familiarity is needed, which as has been pointed out, requires a stable setting in which to present the rules. So that seems to be my first step: create a basic, standard setting, and then explain the standard fantasy tropes in that context. In addition, it seems that putting the charts up front gives some of that feel for the game on first view. They shouldn't be hidden in the back of the book in appendices. 

 

Thanks for your input. Give me more! 

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I think the rulebook would benefit from showing the difference there can be between a sheet for designing/building a character and a sheet for playing one in-game.  many of the folk on here want the builds visible as it provides them with good knowledge of what is possible but I think most new people want only the absolutely necessary information like what I roll for damage and how much END it takes to use it (as well as the cool descriptive stuff that bring home the game).

 

If you are not careful you will set me off on my hobby horse of the character sheet being the game's GUI for players.

 

Doc

 

This would not be a bad thing. Your hobby horse pops up in different threads and is one of the many reasons I have started considering this issue. In fact, my buddy looked through the download section of herogames and found an Excel version of the character sheet that did all the calculations for him and he immediately gravitated toward that. 

 

I tried to let him use my HeroDesigner and that went right out the door. It's too wide open. Even after I spent the better part of a week building prefabs and templates, it really didn't help him at all. I purchased the FH6 character pack, and it didn't help either. I think maybe he's a pen and paper guy all the way (so am I). Some of the exports for HD simulate the stripped-down needs of a character sheet, but they each have their own problems and I don't really want to spend the time coming up with a different layout. I new paper character sheet, as you point out, seems to be in order. Characteristics, skills/perks/etc., spells, equipment, and the hit location chart should be right there. I can't believe they got rid of that chart in the new character sheet!

 

I think it may be another issue you've brought up, or at least it is another similar issue, but the presentation of the material really needs​ to have a fantasy feel. Character sheet, images in the book, even  the font should all help set the mood. The original Fantasy Hero, IIRC, used a sword for section breaks. It's simple little things like that that help set the mood. That's a small complaint, but to the eyes of a new customer, this is why they picked up the game in the first place: they want to play a game that feels like fantasy. This is partly why I'm so disappointed with Fantasy Hero Complete as a product (not as a concept). 

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Yeah there will be an abbreviated spell list in the Player book, but the full writeups etc are in my Fantasy Codex, so that you can use the spell list to see what is available but not the guts of the spells.  The powers list will be stripped down to their basics, leaving out some of the more complex options and such so that it reads more like the 4th edition Champions book than modern rules.  A paragraph or two per power at most, to give the essence but not every detail and nuance.

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Apparantly this thread has been chugging along, I won't be able to cover everything that has been discussed but here are a few things:

#2 Overlapping terms and profusion of terms.

...But on the other hand, have you ever heard anyone muddle up the terms "Armour Class" and "Attack Bonus" like you have "OCV" and "OMCV" or "rPD" and "rED" ? No, you haven't. Because the LACK of pattern makes them more distinct things in the human brain. ...

When teaching players Pathfinder, I've had several of them run into problems with Armor Class vs. Touch AC vs. Flat-Footed AC... and then there is CMD (Combat Maneuver Defense)*. Likewise, similar issues abound regarding BAB (Base Attack Bonus), actual Attack Bonuses, and CMB (Combat Maneuver Bonus)*

*Specific to Pathfinder

 

 

#3 No rocks to cling to.

...

There is no picture of the completed jigsaw on the box by design. But even with an infinite jigsaw (which would be a good alternative name for Hero, imo), you need to find a corner piece sometimes. I can read the Power sections till I can quote them backwards and recite the formula from memory, but it will remain forever confusing and unintuitive until I find some way to know not just how to calculate a 3d6 ranged kililng attack power, but know what a 3d6 ranged killing attack means. In D&D if a Dragon's breath does 10d6 damage and I can see a 1st level fighter has 10 hp, bang, I know how dangerous a dragon's breath is. IN Hero 6e, the formula for damage from a dragon's breath will be x range of Body damage, y range of Stun, factor in resistant or non-resistant defences and a random stun multiplier... Oh, and the fact that in the core books you don't actually have any dragons or 1st level fighters to work out comparisons from... A created character in Hero - what is their Body roughtly? I had no idea. I just have a formula for buying up increases to it but what is normal? How much should I spend on Body? How much will my players spend on Body? The problem isn't that the options aren't clear, it's that there's no weighting to the options. No sign that tells you what the consequences are in terms you understand. You have to read a lot before you start to understand this. And Heavens help anyone who tries to unearth such signs without being adequate at maths!

There are rocks, let me help you find them!

For your "1st level fighter" see FHC 223: the Elf Ranger. For your "Dragon" see FHC 229: the Dragon. For "Average People" (aka 1st level commoners and experts) see FHC 239.

 

Situation: the Elf Ranger enters the Dragon's cave, combat begins on segment 12.

 

The Elf Ranger is built on 175 CP, making her a Standard Heroic Character (per FHC 12). She has Chain armor (FHC 248), and a Longsword and a Longbow (FHC 249). All told her defensive profile is as follows: SPD 3 (Acts on segments 4, 8 12), 11 BODY, 25 STUN, Dex 17, 15 Con, DCV 6, 11 PD (6 rPD), and 11 ED (6 rED), REC 6.

 

The Dragon is built on 967 CP, making it more powerful than a Cosmically Powerful Superheroic Character (per FHC 12). It has and needs no equipment... all told it's offensive profile is as follows SPD 5 (acts on segments 3, 5, 8, 10, 12), STR 50 (10d6 N; Lift 25 tons), Dex 20, OCV (up to) 16, ​Fire Breath​ (4d6 K, Armor Piercing, Area of Effect (Line)). The dragon has lots of other attacks, but they aren't relevant for this example.

 

Given it's higher Dex, the Dragon goes first. If the Dragon uses its ​Fire Breath on segment 12​, it is almost certain to hit; it has a 0.46% miss chance unless the Elf successfully Dives For Cover (FHC 179). Assuming the Dragon gets a perfectly average result the damage will be 14 BODY & 28 STUN. The Elf Ranger will take 11 BODY and 22 STUN (14 BODY - (6/2) rED; and 28 STUN - (11/2) ED), leaving her a 0 BODY, 3 STUN, Stunned (meaning she loses her next action and her DCV is halved), and Dying (bleeding to death). After her segment 12 recovery, the Elf Range has -1 BODY and 9 STUN. Because she was Stunned, she loses her segment 4 action, meaning the Dragon will get 3 actions before the Elf gets to act again (on segments 3, 5, and then 8 right before the Elf). A second attack like the previous will kill her outright... This dragon is having Barbeque Elf for dinner.

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I would be happy to port one of my introductory adventures to Hero with some sample characters to run through it as a Welcome To Fantasy Hero adventure. I'm still learning the system but I'm a strong writer with a good ear for dialogue, plot and character. If someone will help me with rules and stats, I'm very happy to try.

I already spend much of my time building Game Elements for fun... If you need something built, feel free to send me a private message with a description of the thing and I will be happy to oblige at my earliest convenience. Likewise, if you post a "How Do I Build X" Thread, I'm sure many members of the community (myself included) will be happy to contribute their ideas.

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Okay, I've typed a LOT more than I expected. I'll try and put something more solution-y together from my point of view when I have time. I feel as someone who is a newbie and is very ignorant, that I have a lot to contribute here. ;):D But please, let me really emphasise that despite the above criticisms (in the original meaning, not a negative sense) and that I started a whole thread to go "waaaaaahhhh!" elsewhere on this forum, Hero is one of the most impressive games I have seen and there is a very great deal about it I like. I believe I will get to grips with it and especially with so many helpful people in this community ready to help. I believe my greatest difficulty will be moving a D&D 5e group from that to this. That is the challenge I will ultimately face.

 

Great thread. Thanks to Brian Stanfield for starting it.

I'm happy that we're being so helpful.  We've been seeing the effects that the system is having on new people picking it up (that there are fewer and fewer), and I'm glad you're persevering.  We need more of you!

 

Sometimes it's hard for some of us (meaning me) to see where the stumbling blocks are.  I started playing Hero in 1985 with Champions, and was getting into the other genres almost as they were being originally released.  So I'm not the best person to anticipate where people are having trouble.  A lot of us are trying to build help files and plug and play packages, and your input is going to be amazingly helpful with that.  Like the characteristics values chart you mentioned... I'm going to try to figure out where to slot that into my How To Play document.  :)  

 

We've tried for a long time to build a helpful and welcoming community, and I'm glad that's bearing fruit.  

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There are rocks, let me help you find them!

 

Yeah, they are there in the form of point totals: they have levels, Hero has points.  The total tells the tale in the same vague, basic way. Its just presented differently and the way to bring that to people is to present it in a way that is easy to connect to.

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#3 No rocks to cling to.

Look at D&D 4e or 5e. You open the book and you see a bunch of classes.

I acknowledge that this thread is not the place for it, but I have been kicking around some ideas for how to implement classes if someone wants to. If there's interest, I may start a thread on that.

 

Here's a fact: The most useful thing in the 6e entire books I found when I was trying to understand it all the other day, was 6e. vol1, pg. 35. To save anyone looking it up that's the table labelled "Character Ability Guidelines" that says what a normal person has in OCV, DC, Char, etc.

 

I want to repeat that because I think it's both surprising and important. The most useful thing to me in understanding the rules wasn't the basic concepts section or the introduction to Powers or the Character Creation guidelines. It was a table showing what values actually meant.

When you put it that way it seems so obvious - of course that information is very useful. I'd like to think I could have guessed that but I'm not sure I'm that smart.

 

Yeah, they are there in the form of point totals: they have levels, Hero has points.  The total tells the tale in the same vague, basic way. Its just presented differently and the way to bring that to people is to present it in a way that is easy to connect to.

There is one important distinction between point totals and levels.

 

In D&D a 10th level character, no matter WHAT class, will have a 10th level character's hit points, a 10th level character's attack bonus, and a 10th level character's saving throws. Even a wizard deprived of spells and magic items, at 10th level, is better off in a fight than the average 0 level peasant or townsman. In Hero, it is at least theoretically possible to spend 200 or 300 pts on a character without improving the equivalants to hit points, attack chance, or saving throws.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary raids a carpenter's toolbox to steal a level. This just proves it has no class.

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In D&D a 10th level character, no matter WHAT class, will have a 10th level character's hit points, a 10th level character's attack bonus, and a 10th level character's saving throws

 

I get the point you're trying to make but even with that, there's variation.  How well did you roll your hit points?  Which class?  What spells did they memorize? What are their stats?  Did he roll all 9's?  I mean its technically possible to build a completely incompetent 200 point character but it is a raw measure of power just like levels on average.  Point values are a benchmark for estimated power the same way levels are.

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Part of the problem (a big part) is that Hero is not a game. It is a system with which games can be designed. Is a 7 OCV great or poor? Depends on what the norms set for this game are.

 

To my mind, the "powered by Hero" concept would make real games - it would take the toolbox, set which tools will be used how, which will not be used at all and how they will mesh into a game.

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Doesn't Monster Hunter have an issue with some of the monsters being built using Powers or rules that aren't presented in the book?

Yeah, they used the "Basic" rules which (rather arbitrarily IMO) left out a lot of things, but then some of those things wound up in the character write-ups. Teamwork Skill is the first one that comes to mind. Can't remember the others; I'd have to go back and look up some old threads. Another nice idea, but uneven execution.

 

I think, honestly, that's a big part of our (Hero System's) problem.

 

I mean, thinking that gamers in general (as opposed to those of us who are already fans of Hero) WANT to be able to do things like create their own spells.

But is that a problem? Or simply a niche? I love Hero precisely because it's the only RPG that really gives me the freedom to design whatever wacky shit my players & I dream up. I recognize that makes it intimidating for newbies, and I agree that some "Powered By Hero" type books that focus more on presenting the sausage and less on detailing 137 different ways to make sausage is going to have broader appeal. But anything that loses the open-ended toolbox is going to lose me. You don't have to lead with the full toolbox; you can be smarter about how you present the toolbox; but personally I still want access to the whole kit in one place.

 

And while whining about the lack of good settings/campaign books for Hero is a popular pastime here, let's also acknowledge that most of the setting/campaign books Hero has published haven't sold worth crap. We can relive the many different reasons why that is - I don't think we've had that argument yet in 2017. ;) But the reality is that if we (collectively) don't buy the settings Hero puts out, it's hard to blame Hero for not putting out more of them.

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The most useful thing in the 6e entire books I found when I was trying to understand it all the other day, was 6e. vol1, pg. 35. To save anyone looking it up that's the table labelled "Character Ability Guidelines" that says what a normal person has in OCV, DC, Char, etc.

Yeah, leaving out that table was the single biggest oversight they made with the Complete books IMO. Similarly, for the Characteristics Comparison Table from 6e1 p48: they included the bottom half of that page that tells you a "Legendary" STR is as strong as a horse or gorilla, but not the top half of the page that actually tells you what number range that translates to.

 

As for having to jump around some: I get that they were trying to eliminate duplication by putting all the commonly-used tables at the end. But a handful of "See page XX" references in the text would've gone a long way.

 

you end up with OCV, OMCV, DCV, DMCV and on and on... It's a confusion of similar abbreviations everywhere you look.

Fair point. It does feel like we've gone well past Peak Acronym. 

 

I think the rulebook would benefit from showing the difference there can be between a sheet for designing/building a character and a sheet for playing one in-game.

Amen. We use two character sheets: a detailed one for character creation, and a streamlined one for actual play that leaves off most of the math. The problem is I'm not sure how you present that in a game book without it looking even more complicated: "Wait, now I have to copy everything onto a second, completely different character sheet? Are you %$@@! kidding me?" I can't think of any other RPGs that do that, so I wonedr if a lot of potential players would find it off-putting?

 

(That's why personally I was fine when they left the starting values off the "standard" character sheet. But yeah, a table that has starting values, costs, Normal Max, etc all in one place would be helpful.)

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To add to this discussion, I will talk about the areas that I personally struggled with (and in some cases am still a little hazy).To be clear I own Fantasy Hero Complete, I purchased the PDF from here.

 

* Damage Class. I read about Killing Damage and Normal Damage and resistances to that damage (physical defenses against Normal Damage, resistant defenses against Killing Damage). That wasn't too hard to grasp. But as some point in the book it started talking about DCs and seemed to skip the process of converting from DC -> Killing or Normal Damage (1DC = 1D6 Normal Damage, 1DC ~= 1/3 D6 but not really...; or 3DC = 1D6 Killing Damage if I remember correctly). I actually didn't figure that out, assuming I have it right, until searching the forums and reading about other people asking about it.

 

* Calculating the cost of powers. This was a big one, the rules in FHC do not seem very clear in many cases. Active Points = ( Base + Adders ) x (1 + total of add advantages ); Real Points = Active Points / (1 + total of all limitations). Now figuring out exactly what the Adders, Advantages and Limitations are turned out to be more tricky than I would have expected. To compound the problem the formula isn't super easy to find, even when I knew where to look.

 

Honestly that's it for me. Combat seems clear, its a bit different from Gurps - mainly in the way turn order occurs and how speed is handled - but its not bad. It seems to me that Damage types and Powers are so critical to the system that the book needs a lot more examples and it really needs to make the wording itself much clearer.

 

That said I am going to use the system for my next campaign because I wind up building the world, culture and customizing the system for my games anyway - with Hero that customization is really emphasized. So my criticisms are not towards the system itself but rather the documentation.

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I get the point you're trying to make but even with that, there's variation.  How well did you roll your hit points?  Which class?  What spells did they memorize? What are their stats?  Did he roll all 9's?  I mean its technically possible to build a completely incompetent 200 point character but it is a raw measure of power just like levels on average.  Point values are a benchmark for estimated power the same way levels are.

 

There is variation within it, but firstly that variation is greatly reduced compared to Hero. A 10th level wizard might have higher or lower hit points than average, but they'll be within a reasonably predicatable margin. Secondly it doesn't really matter if there are outliers so long as you know they are outliers. If somebody can say "30hp is very low for 5th level fighter" then the problem has actually been solved because the problem isn't someone having low hit points for a fighter (at least the problem we're discussing isn't), it's someone building a character, faced with a sea of points costs for different abilities and not knowing if they've spent a lot of points on Body, not enough points on Body, etc.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that Hero is a great system, but needs some newbie-friendly context and power guide front and centre. Maybe that can be separated out into "Complete" books so that you maintain a programmer's reference and "powered by..." duality. That would probably actually be good business because I can well see people buying one of the Completes and then getting the Hero books for more depth and customization. Or maybe it should be in the core books. I don't know. The advantage of doing it in genre-specific books is that you can fine tune the examples beautifully. Imagine the Damage Class table with examples alongside the levels saying things: "soldier's sword-blow, bite from a tiger", "kick from a horse, an ogre's club", "the firebreath of an ancient dragon". And over in the Hero Modern book you have "a kitchen knife", "heavy pistol", "high powered rifle", "anti-tank missile" and such.

 

I honestly don't think it would actually take that much. The rules system is elegant and consistent. People just need a starting point because there's so much of it. Even just a front page introduction something like the following might be a big help:

 

"Welcome to Hero. Hero is a system that can support many different levels of play and infinite genres. You can build anything with it from a character that can throw (and take) a punch, to a godlike being that can hurl bolts of plasma with their bare hands. In many places in the rules you'll see values for damage, endurance, a character's strength and so forth. Because Hero supports a wide range of play, it's good to know what these numbers mean in context. Take a look at the tables on page XX and YY to get a feel for this."

 

Or it could be at the start of character creation (which might be better). But anyway, just a thought.

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Yeah, they used the "Basic" rules which (rather arbitrarily IMO) left out a lot of things, but then some of those things wound up in the character write-ups. Teamwork Skill is the first one that comes to mind. Can't remember the others; I'd have to go back and look up some old threads. Another nice idea, but uneven execution.

 

But is that a problem? Or simply a niche? I love Hero precisely because it's the only RPG that really gives me the freedom to design whatever wacky shit my players & I dream up. I recognize that makes it intimidating for newbies, and I agree that some "Powered By Hero" type books that focus more on presenting the sausage and less on detailing 137 different ways to make sausage is going to have broader appeal. But anything that loses the open-ended toolbox is going to lose me. You don't have to lead with the full toolbox; you can be smarter about how you present the toolbox; but personally I still want access to the whole kit in one place.

 

And while whining about the lack of good settings/campaign books for Hero is a popular pastime here, let's also acknowledge that most of the setting/campaign books Hero has published haven't sold worth crap. We can relive the many different reasons why that is - I don't think we've had that argument yet in 2017. ;) But the reality is that if we (collectively) don't buy the settings Hero puts out, it's hard to blame Hero for not putting out more of them.

I don't mean to be rude, but a book like that wouldn't be for you. It would be for newbies. An intro book is for intro players. "Champions Begins" or "Fantasy Hero Begins" would be designed to introduce a new group of players to the Hero System in a bite-sized fashion. You don't need that because you've been playing for years.

 

A Fantasy Hero setting that had monsters, and magic spells, and cool world background, has to 1) catch the interest of prospective players, and 2) present the rules in a way that doesn't turn people off. We haven't had a book like that yet. Since it would be written in the Hero System, you wouldn't wven need to see the nuts and bolts of it to be able to change things.

 

If you saw "3D6 killing, area effect 8m, Target gets half defenses, casting time one turn, requires speaking and arm movements, requires material components", you'll know what that is. You'll be able to see the man behind the curtain, so to speak. But there's no need for a new player to have to see all that stuff yet.

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As a long time admirer of and on-again off-again student of the HERO system, I'm loving this thread.

 

I'd already attempted to learn Hero when I saw that Fantasy Hero Complete was being released. I bought it with great enthusiasm and dove in. I have to say that it helped but I also had to lean on Champions Complete, the 6th Edition Basic Rulebook (found on FLGS shelf), lots of forum trawling, some delving into the big blue books, and referencing one of the free GM screens. It was super handy for getting a handle on damage classes.

Chris Goodwin's How to Play HERO System was an incredible help. My players and I were able to use it as a reference - "Yup, I really do understand this part."

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* Damage Class. I read about Killing Damage and Normal Damage and resistances to that damage (physical defenses against Normal Damage, resistant defenses against Killing Damage). That wasn't too hard to grasp. But as some point in the book it started talking about DCs and seemed to skip the process of converting from DC -> Killing or Normal Damage (1DC = 1D6 Normal Damage, 1DC ~= 1/3 D6 but not really...; or 3DC = 1D6 Killing Damage if I remember correctly). I actually didn't figure that out, assuming I have it right, until searching the forums and reading about other people asking about it.

 

* Calculating the cost of powers. This was a big one, the rules in FHC do not seem very clear in many cases. Active Points = ( Base + Adders ) x (1 + total of add advantages ); Real Points = Active Points / (1 + total of all limitations). Now figuring out exactly what the Adders, Advantages and Limitations are turned out to be more tricky than I would have expected. To compound the problem the formula isn't super easy to find, even when I knew where to look.

 

I added a note on Damage Class to my How to Play HERO System document, and updated the power cost bit to include Adders as well, as I realized that wasn't in there.   :)  Thank you for the input!  

 

I will also add a chart for Characteristics cost.  Edited:  Updated to include references with page numbers to the tables in CC and FHC.

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Chris Goodwin's How to Play HERO System was an incredible help. My players and I were able to use it as a reference - "Yup, I really do understand this part."

 

I'm glad to hear that!  This thread is a big help to me in learning where that document could use some help, and I have been adding to it.  

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I'm coming to the conclusion that Hero is a great system, but needs some newbie-friendly context and power guide front and centre.

 

You're not the only one to reach that conclusion. This forum community is in general agreement with you. The problem is that we can't really do anything of significance to address the issue. We simply don't have the resources. Unfortunately, neither does Hero Games.

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You're not the only one to reach that conclusion. This forum community is in general agreement with you. The problem is that we can't really do anything of significance to address the issue. We simply don't have the resources. Unfortunately, neither does Hero Games.

 

I have Google Docs and a pretty good typing speed, so there is that.  :)

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