Area of Effect Defense ?

[Basic204]

I wanted to know is there a good area of effect defense ?

[steriaca]

I wanted to know is there a good area of effect defense ?

Resultant Protection, Limited Power (Only VS Area Of Effect Attacks: price based on how common AOE attacks are in the game).

 

+DCV, Limited Power (Only VS Area Of Effect Attacks: see above).

[PaladinAg]

The question is are you after protection against area effect attacks, in which case, see steriaca's comments above or a defence that protects and area:

 

If you are looking after a defence that protects an area then I would suggest barrier or one of the usable against others options.  To have the "force field effect" I would probably go with the following:

 

Usable against others - everybody within 10m (+1), all receive benefit (+0), willing recipient (+0), grantees must be within limited range when  given power (+1/4), grantor pays END (-1/4) if END power, must remain close to grantor (-1/2).  Total +3/4 to +1/2 to the power.

 

PaladinAg

[Hyper-Man]

Bonus DCV won't work any more than a regular or martial dodge. Dive For Cover and Flying Dodge both allow for movement as an Abort. If the character can move far enough or behind cover they can escape the Area of Effect.

 

HM

[Cantriped]

For a Defense which is inherently Area of Effect, you want Barrier.

 

A Defense against Area Of Effect Attacks specifically is much more difficult, perhaps:

+X to Dex Rolls; Only To Dive For Cover (-?) plus​ Leaping +Y​m; Only To Dive For Cover (-?).

[zslane]

What is the concept behind this defense? What are the sfx?

 

A proper power build can't exist without knowing the concept being modeled.

[steriaca]

Change Environment could increse the DCV of the area it is upon. Except there are no hard and fast Change Environment rules on that.

 

Again, we only have a general description of what is wanted (defense of an area), and Hero operates via special effect.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah I'm gonna say "not enough information."  It could be as simple as "dive for cover" penalty levels.

[Basic204]

On 1/18/2017 at 3:33 PM, zslane said:

What is the concept behind this defense? What are the sfx?

 

A proper power build can't exist without knowing the concept being modeled.

The character would be teleporting out of the way.

[steriaca]

2 minutes ago, Basic204 said:

The character would be teleporting out of the way.

Missile Deflection, Must Be Aware Of Attack, Restranable, No Range.  Allows the character to block range attacks without some object. Reflection is now a different power in 6ed. You can add Trigger to it (when in a targeted area of a range attack), but it is not necessary. 

[Echo3Niner]

Or do you mean a defensive power that works in an area of effect (e.g. damage shield, self only, aoe, etc.)?

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Echo3Niner
Typo

[Duke Bushido]

+10 DCV, usable by Hexes.

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

5 hours ago, Basic204 said:

The character would be teleporting out of the way.

If you are the GM or the GM allows, Trigger on T-port should work.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

+10 DCV, usable by Hexes.

 

 

I don't know what it is, I just cannot seem to hit that area, I'm always WAY off!!

The funny thing is, it would work and you could build that: Usable as an attack on all nearby (the hexes can't volunteer to have more DCV).

[dsatow]

21 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I don't know what it is, I just cannot seem to hit that area, I'm always WAY off!!

The funny thing is, it would work and you could build that: Usable as an attack on all nearby (the hexes can't volunteer to have more DCV).

 

The funny thing, it reminds me of a time I played a martial artist and an explosion targeting a nearby hex was happening.  So I aborted my phase to be 4" farther away figuring losing the top 6 dice would let it bounce off me.  The GM rolls to hit and bungles it badly.  He randomly rolls direction and guess what, it lands on top of me.  Top 4 dice were all 6s, though damage was average.  If I had just stayed still I would have been unharmed.

[Nekkidcarpenter]

On 1/18/2017 at 10:32 AM, Hyper-Man said:

Dive For Cover and Flying Dodge both allow for movement as an Abort.

The 'Flying' maneuvers are poorly worded and constructed, but the gist of it is that you CANNOT abort to a FMove.  You can abort to the Dodge part of the maneuver, or you can use the maneuver on your own phase to make a FMove and get +4 DCV for Dodging.  If you could abort to a full move why would anyone travel any other way?  Segment 12, half move then hold action.  Segment 1 ABORT TO A FULL MOVE DODGING!  WOOOO!

[Duke Bushido]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:24 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I don't know what it is, I just cannot seem to hit that area, I'm always WAY off!!

The funny thing is, it would work and you could build that: Usable as an attack on all nearby (the hexes can't volunteer to have more DCV).

 

 

So you're saying I would have to make it Area of Effect, then?

 

 

 

 

[Duke Bushido]

40 minutes ago, Nekkidcarpenter said:

The 'Flying' maneuvers are poorly worded and constructed, but the gist of it is that you CANNOT abort to a FMove.  You can abort to the Dodge part of the maneuver, or you can use the maneuver on your own phase to make a FMove and get +4 DCV for Dodging.  If you could abort to a full move why would anyone travel any other way?  Segment 12, half move then hold action.  Segment 1 ABORT TO A FULL MOVE DODGING!  WOOOO!

 

 

I completely agree with you, but I'd like to put this up here in the middle of a friendly discussion instead of all the places I would _like_ to put, but fear it would start a negative argument:

 

People routinely ask how to simulate this or that regarding increased reflexes or particular speedster schticks.

 

My suggestion is usually playing hardball with the speed chart.

 

We all know that by definition, a Character's Phase is _not_ that one segment in which he declares, takes, and resolves his action, but is in fact all of the segments since his last action up to his current one, and his next Phase begins the following segment and continues on until the next segment in which he may declare, take, and resolve an action.

 

So how about this:

 

He _declares_ his action in that first Segement.  His action "begins" immediately.  One half of the way (rounded down) to the Segment in which he would ordinarily declare / act / resolve, his half-Phase actions (if he is talking any)are resolved.  If he opted to take a Full Move, then at this point, he makes one half of that Full Move.  If he is not making a Full Phase action, he may now begin his second Half-Phase action.

 

Two-thirds of the way, rounded down, he may make any final adjustments to his Skill Levels.  On the final Segment of his Phase-- the Segment in which he would normally declare / act / resolve, his Full Phase action is complete.  Roll to hit at this point versus the target he declared (if he was attacking), etc, etc.

 

This does all the things we expect when we want to see super-fast characters interacting with slower characters, and it creates that "speedsters see the world in slow motion" thing.  It also does things like "I shoot my area affect at the hex he is standing in!" while the much faster character will have an additional Phase or even two in which he may simply leave that area.

 

Before shooting it down (I will take care of that myself, in a moment  ), study it.  Not only does this keep all the promises of the speed chart, it models precisely all those things people really want to see when they build fast-fast Characters.  It let's the lightning-quick gunfighter easily get the drop on the guy who already has a weapon drawn.  It let the speedsters harmless side-step and completely circle the brick who's bearing down on him.  It does so much of what people wrack their brains trying to model.  It's perfect, and it's pretty much doing _nothing_ to the rules but enforcing the literal interpretation of the Speed Chart.  I only bring it up in this context because it works extremely well to take the bite out of AoE and Explosion attacks while doing nothing more than staying accurate to the concept of a fast Character.

 

In fact, I like it _so_ much that I have tried for years to make it something other than an unplayable mess. 

 

No, seriously: while it very well may be a more-exact model for what the Speed Chart is intending to represent, the fact is that even when Characters have only a single point of SPD in difference, the whole thing becomes horribly, _horribly_ one sided, heavily (and I can't stress enough just how heavily) favoring the faster Character.  Is this accurate?  Of course it is.  The Flash at SPD 12 _can_ run circles around Doctor Doom; no problem.  It's accurate.

 

 

But it is absolutely _not_ fun.  (trust me on that).

 

 

Anyway, just a slightly-related thing I have wanted to share for years, and I have finally found a place to insert it as a tangent instead of as a counterpoint.

 

Still, if anyone decides they want to play with it themselves, and manages to find a way to make it work such that the faster Character doesn't mop the floor with everyone else on the field  (I mean in a better way that the rules currently do; if you can better represent the advantages of faster reflexes / more actions / shorter reaction times better than we currently do it without making faster Characters un-hittable), by all means, let me know how you did it.

 

 

 

[Ninja-Bear]

10 hours ago, Nekkidcarpenter said:

The 'Flying' maneuvers are poorly worded and constructed, but the gist of it is that you CANNOT abort to a FMove.  You can abort to the Dodge part of the maneuver, or you can use the maneuver on your own phase to make a FMove and get +4 DCV for Dodging.  If you could abort to a full move why would anyone travel any other way?  Segment 12, half move then hold action.  Segment 1 ABORT TO A FULL MOVE DODGING!  WOOOO!

I believe that it’s been clarified that what happens is you are allowed to move the remaining movement if using Flying Dodge. So if you only did a half move then you can move the other half. If you didn’t move then you can use all your movement. If you only have 4m left then you can only up to 4m. 
 

 

Oh no one suggest Desolid versus AoE? Ok, I’m Flying Dodge outta here! 😁

[dsatow]

4 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I believe that it’s been clarified that what happens is you are allowed to move the remaining movement if using Flying Dodge. So if you only did a half move then you can move the other half. If you didn’t move then you can use all your movement. If you only have 4m left then you can only up to 4m. 
 

 

Oh no one suggest Desolid versus AoE? Ok, I’m Flying Dodge outta here! 😁

 

Yup, this was asked of Steve a while back.  The flying dodge martial maneuver allows you to do a full move and dodge.  If you held a half phase, then you can move the rest of your movement along with dodging.  So yes, its seems to be designed that way on purpose (i.e. its not "broken" but maybe abusive).  It gets worse.  It was also asked if you abort to flying dodge after using your full movement on the prior segment, do you get to use your full movement?  The answer was again yes, you get your full movement and the dodge for the aborted phase. 

[Nekkidcarpenter]

I'm pretty sure The Ultimate Martial Artist was the start of the 'Flying' maneuvers, and the FMove element says in its description that it allows the attached maneuver to be performed during or at the end of a Full Move i.e; not a Full Move performed as part of the other maneuver.  It seems that so many people misunderstood Steve Long's original wording that they just said screw it and decided to let people abort to move.  

[Echo3Niner]

On 1/6/2022 at 2:53 PM, Basic204 said:

The character would be teleporting out of the way.

 

On 1/6/2022 at 8:17 PM, Ninja-Bear said:

If you are the GM or the GM allows, Trigger on T-port should work.

 

Ironically, while reading this thread to my wife (who was asking what I was "going on and on about"),  I realized that the OPs question was clarified, and already answered (by the above quotes)...

 

On 1/6/2022 at 7:26 PM, Duke Bushido said:

+10 DCV, usable by Hexes.

 

On 1/6/2022 at 9:24 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

I don't know what it is, I just cannot seem to hit that area, I'm always WAY off!!

 

Ohhhh, I like this - gives me a great idea for a character (hero or villain) - Displacer - generates a field that makes everything inside the field (including Displacer themselves) always not actually where they are, like looking through a prism; oh man! maybe they should be called Prism!  Anyway, makes them (or anyone else or anything in the field) almost impossible to target (so that would include aoe attacks)...  I like that idea!

 

Now, how do I write that up?

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Echo3Niner
Adding additional thoughts

[Duke Bushido]

Without putting any thought into it (nothing personal; I have to take my wife to see her beast friend in a few minutes.  Ms J suffered a stroke a couple of months ago and, being how close they are (my wife _really and truly_ does not bond well with other people-- to the point where for twenty years she has only two friends: Ms J and my brother D.  She _likes_ people; she just doesn't bond easily), I make it a point to take her any time she wants to go.

 

Short version: that leaves me with just a few minutes here:

 

+X DCV, only affects the hex the character is standing in (consider enlarging this with AoE, centered on the Character, of perhaps centered on a particular hex near the character.  Remember that if the Character is going to be _outside_ the Area of Effect of his power, you might want to apply Ranged as well-- for what it's worth, I would require it in that case.  Also noted that I probably wouldn't make him buy Ranged because I _probably_ wouldn't allow him to use this "power" at a range sufficient enough to put him outside of his AoE.  Not because I'm a jerk, but because a reasonably crafty player could make this a real nightmare for your heroes.  Perhaps he could develop this ability after the Players have encountered him a couple of times-- once they get a feel for his Schtick, he could grow it up a bit-- staying in theme, just getting a bit more powerful as they do.

 

Now because you want the "here I am!" effect of him actually appearing to be somewhere else, considering Images: Here I am! Linked to your new Fractured Perceptions power  (and yeah: I had a villain named Fracture with this ability.  For what it's worth, now that I have read your suggestion of Prism, I wish I had a time machine and could go back thirty years..   .  His SFX was making the area around him (his defenses usable on hexes-- to explain that:  Steve Long added a thing to HERO cannon to simulate Magic Missile:  "One Hex Accurate."  I had a Player figure this out thirty years ago (if you're curious, he specifically named this power "Screw Your Ninjas!" as a reference to the Martial Artist tendency to have lots of Combat Skill Levels).  It didn't take long before _everyone_ had this.   Fracture was intended to demonstrate that maybe the heroes should have a power or two that did _not_ have that, just in case.  .  Oh; sorry: his SFX were making the world within a certain area appear as though you were viewing it through a shattered mirror, hence the name)

 

You can get as simple or as complicated as you want to fine-tune the effect, but whatever your final build is, remember that it needs to be something that you would allow a Player to use not just in the game you have next week, but in the one you had two weeks ago, too.

 

 

 

Gotta run!
 

 

[IndianaJoe3]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:24 PM, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

I don't know what it is, I just cannot seem to hit that area, I'm always WAY off!!

The funny thing is, it would work and you could build that: Usable as an attack on all nearby (the hexes can't volunteer to have more DCV).

 

That is how I would build it. I might also require AoE to define the area. (I haven't priced this out.)

[LoneWolf]

You can use teleport or any other movement with dive for cover or other maneuvers.  Skill levels with movement are pretty cheap so it would not take many to get a high enough bonus that you almost always succeed in the DEX roll for the dive for cover. 

 

If you are holding an action you don’t need to use drive for cover you can simply move (teleport) out of the area.   You only need to abort if you have already acted.  A smart player will often wait to see what is happening before committing to an action.  Having a higher DEX does not mean you go first; it means you get to choose when you act.