Group types

[Nothere]

So what would you say if the best assembling of character types for a fantasy hero group? To put it in d&d terms I'd say 3 fighters, 2 thieves, a cleric, and a mage.

[Cantriped]

In 3rd edition D&D they suggested that a party required at least 1 Fighter, 1 Cleric, and 1 Rogue to function. It is safe to assume "Fighter" can be replaced by any dedicated martial class (such as Barbarian, Paladin, or Ranger), "Cleric" can be replaced by any dedicated healer (such as Druid), likewise for Rogue (although there weren't any suitable substitutes in the Player's Handbook). The party functions better if it has a Bard (given their ability to act as a diplomat, and substitute for other party members in a pinch), and a Wizard or Sorcerer (for their ability to act as a tactical weapon of mass destruction)

 

However, a Fantasy Hero campaign doesn't necessarily have the same encounter and adventure design conceits that D&D campaigns do. So in Fantasy Hero I would instead postulate that a Fantasy Hero party requires at least 1 Warrior, and 1 Diplomat to function. If the campaign has magic, then the party will also require at least one Magician (preferably one who can Heal and/or Nuke). If the campaign involves dungeoneering, then the party will also require at least one Explorer (a character who can deal with traps and unusual terrain elements). What is required, and what is ideal will vary from campaign to campaign; I don't think there is a single perfect array.

 

I think the "Best" parties are those which have at least one character devoted to filling each role required by the campaign, but also have other characters who can fill in for those characters if something happens to them. For example, the Bard might normally be the dedicated diplomat, but if the Cleric goes down, they can heal in a pinch, and if the Rogue goes down they can scout in a pinch.

[Christopher R Taylor]

No group I've ever run or been part of in Fantasy Hero had even the slightest concern over makeup.  We made the guys we liked, and it worked out.  In a pinch I've had to throw in an NPC healer or mage sometimes, just to help the party out where they lacked, but overall it worked out fine.  As Cantriped notes, Fantasy Hero doesn't start with any presumptions about adventure types or setting so there's no recommended or necessary group.  If everyone makes an elf with a bow... okay the GM can make adventures that works in.

[phydaux]

You need a few melee types, a couple ranged damage types (archer or mage will work), a healer, and someone to scout and find & disarm traps.

 

The "problem," if there is one, is that Hero system blurs the lines between classes.  Often a rogue can be as effective in melee as a dedicated melee type.  Or change just a few things around and the rogue is also a highly effective archer.  And the mages are usually the healers, since there's no real distinction between arcane and divine magic.  

 

In my regular group, when we create characters we each try to pick a "stchick" and then we each go with that - "I'll be the melee guy." "I'll be the archer guy." " I'll be the sneaky guy." "I'll be the spell caster."  And then we try not to step on the other player's stchick.  

 

But one thing never changes, D&D, Rolemaster, GURPS, or Hero, PnP or on-line - "Keep the mobs off the healer!  For God sake, keep the mobs off the healer!"

[phydaux]

No group I've ever run or been part of in Fantasy Hero had even the slightest concern over makeup.  We made the guys we liked, and it worked out.  In a pinch I've had to throw in an NPC healer or mage sometimes, just to help the party out where they lacked, but overall it worked out fine.  As Cantriped notes, Fantasy Hero doesn't start with any presumptions about adventure types or setting so there's no recommended or necessary group.  If everyone makes an elf with a bow... okay the GM can make adventures that works in.

 

My standard question whenever I sit down at the table with a new group is "What does the party NOT HAVE yet?"  Then I make and play that character.  

 

And like I said, in my regular group we each make a point of making characters as different as possible from the other PCs, so that each of us gets a chance to be "The best there is at what I do ."

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think it works best for people to have one defined thing they are great at, that's for sure.  There's usually at least one player who can't stand being outshined at their thing and there's no reason to make them feel blue by duplicating.

[Old Man]

The two things the group really can't do without are a tank and a healer, and I don't know about the healer.  Honestly the teams I remember best had nothing to do with what jobs everyone had, but what personalities and quirks they had.  There was the dimwitted half-ogre who couldn't hit anything, who hated the quick witted archer, but in combat the archer would hide behind the half-ogre and then stun targets so they would be half DCV and the half-ogre could finish them off.  "There, now can you hit him?!"  There was the necromancer who probably shouldn't have been in the same group with the paladin but they usually both agreed on who needed to be killed, they'd just argue about exactly how.  There were the two wizards who would compete to see who could be flashiest in combat, sometimes at risk to themselves or other party members.

 

Anyway.  My point is that I don't know that there really is an ideal party makeup by occupation, aside from having one or two guys who are just really durable and have reliable attacks.  As long as each member has their own 'thing' that they can do, just about any party composition can work in FH.

[TheDarkness]

Yeah, the nice thing about Hero is the lack of classes. And that, if you want a ranger, there's absolutely no reason in creation it would ever be like a D&D ranger.

 

So, for example, the ranger could have healing by way of elven lore on herbs. Or an elf mage could. Or various members of the party could have some healing abilities for different reasons.(Elven herbal lore, spells, prayers, minor items).

 

For me, the original Conan movie is a great example of a party that Hero is well designed to make. They all have some thieving ability, but they are all also competent at fighting in different ways.

[Ninja-Bear]

We still use classes in a sense because it is easier for a lot of players to run their characters. That being said, they aren't hide bound to a class.

But all characters can at least fight ok.

[Ninja-Bear]

Btw I find classes as useful as racial templates.

[Christopher R Taylor]

The thing is, fantasy Hero isn't a MMOG, so you don't have the "tank gets all the aggro while the healer keeps them alive and everyone kills yet another group of bad guys that line up in convenient non-interacting and easily pulled groups" effect.  There's a brain involved in how the monsters behave, there's hopefully some logic and common sense behind how the adventure is laid out, and you're not trapped in basic computer game patterns.  No "tank" in the group?  OK, people are sniper and sneakers and split up the bad guys and use traps, etc.  There are options available in an actual role playing game that aren't in a computer game.

[Nothere]

The reason I put it in d&d terms is Fantasy Hero charecters can be too varied to fit into catagories. For example you could make a sailor with no combat experience, and a couple of spells useless in combat. If your not in a combat heavy game you can still have fun playing him, but he doesn't exactly fit the usual fantasy archtypes.

[Kesedrith]

I've had groups that were entirely fighters types that worked just fine. Especially if everyone took something like Fast Healing. Add good perception rolls and one of two characters with various mechanical skills, and traps aren't a problem either. I guess the latter could be considered a "multiclass," except everything else about them was still aimed and carving any enemies up. Even in D&D I've had, or seen, single class parties work. I've found that, in fact, it makes players think more about what they're doing because of that lack of healing abilities or magic or swords and armor. Again, most of that sort of thing is ingrained because many of us were told that back at the beginning of our RPG "careers": a group must contain at least.... Well, no, they really don't have to have that spread of classes.

[Old Man]

The reason I put it in d&d terms is Fantasy Hero charecters can be too varied to fit into catagories. For example you could make a sailor with no combat experience, and a couple of spells useless in combat. If your not in a combat heavy game you can still have fun playing him, but he doesn't exactly fit the usual fantasy archtypes.

 

As I said earlier FH hardly requires or prefers a particular mix of group members since characters are rarely pigeonholed into a "class", and because it's easy to tailor the campaign to suit the group.

 

That said, the ideal group for 'generic' D&D-style adventuring would probably be a 50/50 mix of normal fighters and spellcasters.  You need the latter for access to Powers.  But in FH that access comes with all sorts of, well, limitations, so you also need to have a bunch of more reliable and durable warriors in the mix.  Conversely, the warriors will be useful in 90% of combat situations, but supporting them with a spellcaster can make them much more effective.

[Mister E]

When I GM AD&D2 I give everybody the Complete Priest's Handbook to make PCs.

 

They can have any kit they want from any book.

 

I make them roll for a psionic wild talent from either the Complete Psionicist's Handbook or the Will & the Way (darksun).

 

Then they get to pick a philosophical faction or sect (planescape).

 

Each PC ends up unique.

[Christopher R Taylor]

To me, the real character type that's needed in every group is the sneaky lock picky type.  The scout-trap finder sort, who is more useful in more situations than any other single skillset.  Sometimes magic can cover some of this, sometimes fighters will learn some of the skills.  While you can get by without a lot of abilities, those locks won't pick themselves and its best to have someone able to find and get rid of traps and such.

[drunkonduty]

The precise mix depends on the style of game.

 

That being said I think rogues are always useful.

Dungeon crawls need rogues to handle locks and traps. A political game doesn't need a locks and traps character. But being able to break into the ambassador's room and riffle through their papers without being found out is certainly going to be useful.

 

Then there's the combined wizard/rogue. A great combination. The sheer range of situations you can be useful in is just brilliant. Basically all the rogue ones, with magic to help.

 

Any combat heavy game is going to need meat shields. And there's something satisfying in knowing your character may not always be that important to the scene, but when they're needed they get to be right in the middle of it. Of course there's no reason you can't broaden that meat shield's role with, gasp, non-combat skills!

 

Actually the more I write, the more I realise that the archetypes I am referring to are very DnD specific. HERO doesn't need to limit characters like this. In fact, as we all know, it encourages broader types. There are still roles a character can play. Team Muscle (magical or stabby), team Brain, the Face, Skills, Comedy Relief, Leader. But there is also plenty of room for overlapping roles should that be desirable.

[Ninja-Bear]

Onething that strucke is that with Hero and characrer generation is that it is really tied to what type of games the GM runs or conversely the GM runs games very tailored to the type of characters are built. Iirc DnD says you need x classes because that is the type of challenges found in the module. And if.the.module is truly ran as neutral from the DM the nlacking certain skillls can almost guarantee a TPK.

[Lucius]

 

"The Adventurer's Guild does not prescribe a specific mix of Skills for specific types of adventures, but we do offer Certifications in a range of Skill sets to assist you in selecting the right adventurer for the right job. Whether looking to recruit an entire adventuring party or just pick up a hireling for a special short term purpose, the Adventurer's Guild hopes to assist you."

 

COMBAT Certification I

Apprentice (strongly recommended for any Adventurer)

Minimum qualifications: Familiarity with at least 1 weapon, able to fight with OCV and DCV 4 or more (Whether raw OCV and DCV or with Levels or maneuvers.)

 

COMBAT Certification II

Journeyman

Minimum qualifications: Familiarity with Common Melee Weapons, able to fight with OCV and DCV 6 or more (Whether raw OCV and DCV or with Levels or maneuvers,) SPD 3+

PLUS

Defenses: one of - Owns & wears armor with DEF 3+ / Combat Luck / member of species with inherent Resistant DEF

Durabiity: Able to withstand a physical blow doing 25 STUN (before defenses) without becoming unconscious or stunned.

Courage: PRE 13+

 

COMBAT Certification III

Master

Minimum qualifications: Familiarity with Common Melee Weapons, able to fight with OCV and DCV 6 or more (Whether raw OCV and DCV or with Levels or maneuvers,) SPD 3+

PLUS

Defenses: one of - Owns & wears armor with DEF 3+ / Combat Luck / member of species with inherent Resistant DEF

Durabiity: Able to withstand a physical blow doing 25 STUN (before defenses) without becoming unconscious or stunned, BOD at least 8.

Courage: PRE 15+

Combat Mastery: one of - Owns and uses unique or magical weapon, shield, or armor / Weaponmaster or Deadly Blow / Martial Arts / Defense Manuever IV or better / other special.

 

Burglar EXPERT TREASURE HUNTER Certification I

Apprentice

Minimum Qualifications: Familiarity with Security Systems and Lockpicking.

 

Thief EXPERT TREASURE HUNTER Certification II

Journeyman

Minimum Qualifications: Proficiency with Security Systems, Lockpicking, Stealth, and Concealment

 

Rogue EXPERT TREASURE HUNTER Certification III

Master

Minimum Qualifications: Roll of 11 or better with Security Systems, Lockpicking, Stealth, and Concealment.

PLUS

Experienced: +1 Skill Level with above Skills

Alert: Sight Perception roll of 12 or better

Expertise: One of - Evaluate Treasure (Analyze Value of Loot,) Danger Sense usable out of combat, Literate in 3+ languages, relevant magical training or item, other special

 

MEDIC Certification I

Apprentice

Minimum Qualifications: Proficiency with First Aid (Paramedics)

 

MEDIC Certification II

Journeyman

Minimum Qualifications: Roll 11 or better with First Aid (Paramedics)

 

MEDIC Certification III

Master

Minimum Qualifications: Roll 12 or better with First Aid (Paramedics) and Diagnosis (Analyze: Illness or Injury)

Plus

Some form of magical or extraordinary healing (including knowledge of making potions) that is battlefield deployable (patient will recover at least 2 BOD in at most 1 Turn)

 

"Certifications under development include Leadership, Spokesman/Negotiator, Wilderness Guide, Ranger/Archer, Sage/Mage. The Guild welcomes feedback from experienced adventurers regarding the Certification program."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Certified Palindromedary Rider