For people who use maps and 2m/hex how do you deal with odd numbers?

[zslane]

Hero System combat is basically a man-to-man-scale (board) wargame. It seems quite natural to me to treat battlemat hexes as discrete board game "squares." I'm pretty sure the original designers of the system did.

[Tasha]

I just can't figure out why people insist they are 2m hexes.  Call them 1m hexes, and the problems vanish

Both Tradition and that 2m hexes take up less space esp for Champions game where characters can move very far. ie 50pts of Flight would be 50" or ~4' of space on a table to full move. Turns into 2' of space used on a 1"=2m hex. Also all of the maps in every Hero system product ever sold uses 1"=2m scale. On top of that assuming 2m hexes makes adapting D&D maps easier/possible. Just assume that 5' is close enough to 2m and go from there. That opens up a TON of maps that exist both Preprinted and PDF maps. Also, If you do use a gridded map, it's much easier to tell players that they can move X hexes for a full move or X/2 hexes for a half move.

 

The only pregenned maps that us 1"=1m scale are Early GURPS maps (I don't know if SJG kept that scale in modern products or not).

[TheDarkness]

I hadn't even heard of triangular map setups, interesting.

 

I actually favor not seeing the hexes as discreet, and merely as a means to measure, especially since the means obviously is at odds with how much movement one might buy. Then again, enough of the gamers I play with are also wargamers AND contractors, so a day without a tape measure is like youtube without crazy people, it's inconcievable. As such, it is not too hard to see whether two figs are in, essentially, base to base contact.

 

It's funny, aside from the overall pleasantness of the Hero forum, I find, since I'm designing my own game system, that Hero gamers really think a lot in a lot of really interesting ways about things that are really game designing in nature. This week alone, I was putting a lot of thought on how experience and maps work out in my system, and lo and behold, here the hero gamers are both talking about their ways of dealing with both on the forum.

 

As far as what one measures one hex to be, there clearly can be issues if the map surface is not, in reality, quite huge. Knockback alone could be a big problem, as could large moves, as the table edge could create issues.

 

When I get back to the states, my stepson and I are planning on designing our own game table for just such issues. I wonder if I will be carving a lot of hexes into a large surface just because I don't understand time management.

 

As far as whether hex distances are RAW, I would say one could argue that both ways. The movement and powers and rules, by default, could support arguments that say they are not, as you can and do buy in quantities that 1"=2m does not model(assuming one can ONLY move and attack in distances measured as whole hexes), and, if not using hex maps, would simply measure and get exactly what you payed for. Conversely, as others have stated, the hex measurement given as RAW do allow for dealing with some of the limitations of using hex maps.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Just using blank hex mats and drawing on your details over a sheet of plastic or an erasable map eliminates the scaling issues.  Its a really simple solution.

[Scott Ruggels]

2m/hex is really only meant to be used with earlier editions of the system where movement is rated in terms of "inches", not meters. Each "inch" is assumed to be equal to a single battlemat hexagon (roughly 1" across) representing 2m of space (i.e., the amount of space a single human-sized character fills). So in editions prior to 6e, your character had 15" of movement, not 15m of movement. Nobody moved an odd number of meters as a full move back then.

 

However, a similar issue still came up when characters with an odd number of inches of movement performed a Half Move. In such (very common) cases, the standard convention was to allow the character to round up the number of hexes moved.

this is exactly how it used to be done.  Champions was a miniatures game based on 25mm miniatures on 25mm or in In hex mats. I have not made the move to 6e, and don't know if i will, because I prefer mats and minis.

[Ninja-Bear]

Just using blank hex mats and drawing on your details over a sheet of plastic or an erasable map eliminates the scaling issues. Its a really simple solution.

Obviously you haven't seen my drawing skills.

[bigdamnhero]

this is exactly how it used to be done.  Champions was a miniatures game based on 25mm miniatures on 25mm or in In hex mats. I have not made the move to 6e, and don't know if i will, because I prefer mats and minis.

Maybe someone else can point out where in 6ed it says you can't use mats & minis, cuz I obviously missed that passage. [/snark]

 

Seriously, the only thing 6ed did by changing from hexes to meters is to make it easier if you want to do battles at a different scale. Probably 75% of our fights still take place on a hex mat at 2m/hex scale.

[Hyper-Man]

Not exactly on topic but something everyone here might find useful...

 

From a recent rpgnet thread:  Best RPG Accessories that you know about

 

Either one of these could be used in a combat with high knockback by moving the center of action off of the 'original' map location.

 

http://role4initiative.com/search.php?pi=100&oos=oos&q=45004

http://www.gamenightlife.com/product-p/hh1.htm

 

The second magnetic version looks really cool but is not available yet.

 

HM

[Christopher R Taylor]

A big hex mat is fine at 1m hexes for 90% of the time, particularly heroic.  If someone has 50m movement, how often are they going to bust out that full amount in combat unless they're fleeing it?

[Hugh Neilson]

A big hex mat is fine at 1m hexes for 90% of the time, particularly heroic.  If someone has 50m movement, how often are they going to bust out that full amount in combat unless they're fleeing it?

If I have 50m Movement, and some Range Penalty Skill Levels, I expect I'll make a few half moves at 25 meters.

[Old Man]

Hero is 2 meters per hex and anyone who disagrees will be put to the sword.

 

 

 

For odd meters of movement I'd probably just round up and ignore it.  I honestly can't remember it ever coming up though.

[zslane]

Hero is 2 meters per hex and anyone who disagrees will be put to the sword.

 

Amen to that, brother!

 

Those who want a 1"(hex)=1m map scale should just go back to playing <gag> GURPS.

[Scott Ruggels]

Obviously you haven't seen my drawing skills.

My bad, drawing is about all I can do well.  On the other hand I know people made a lot of use with those clear plastic 18in. and 24 in, rulers though.

[TheDarkness]

You will never destroy the forces of Unimeter! You guys knock down our one meter hex, and eight 1 meter hexes will rise to take their place.

 

Granted, it was probably unfortunate that our agents' uniforms are unitards, but sometimes one can take a theme too far.

[Ninja-Bear]

this is exactly how it used to be done. Champions was a miniatures game based on 25mm miniatures on 25mm or in In hex mats. I have not made the move to 6e, and don't know if i will, because I prefer mats and minis.

As much as I like maps, I have had many a game without them and used stones, dominoes and such for my map. Heck I even went mapless and figureless one game.

[Surrealone]

 If someone has 50m movement, how often are they going to bust out that full amount in combat unless they're fleeing it?

If they are a character who likes to use Move By for attacks, then expect it a lot.  In such a scenario, the character can come into range, attack (or even multiple attack), then exit range and/or get behind full cover.

 

Speedsters commonly rely on this sort of approach, by the way... as it lets them hit others ... while avoiding being hit, themselves.

[Hugh Neilson]

Hero is 2 meters per hex and anyone who disagrees will be put to the sword.

 

You are thinking of D&D/d20's 5' squares. "It must be this way" is a d20 concept. "Here is how I do it, but many other valid ways exist" is the HEROism.

 

 

For odd meters of movement I'd probably just round up and ignore it.  I honestly can't remember it ever coming up though.

Precedent says we round up pretty much everything. 7" Running gave a 4" half move since forever. If you want to use 10 meter (or 10") hexes, and have people track the surplus/shortfall until it accounts for a full hex on the map, I doubt the world is going to come to an end.

 

Actually, a single map with a large scale (where shortfalls/surpluses are tracked) with a breakout into a smaller-scale map once we're within distances that tactical moves become relevant, seems like it could make for an interesting scenario structure that provides a reward to those players who invested in significant movement, as well as an incentive to choose to go noncombat (or megascale) during a combat.

[Old Man]

You are thinking of D&D/d20's 5' squares. "It must be this way" is a d20 concept. "Here is how I do it, but many other valid ways exist" is the HEROism.

 

[BoloOfEarth]

I use a large hexmat, unless I'm using the rather excellent (IMO) Dramascape maps, printed onto cardstock "tiles" and trimmed** to put together at the game table.  In the case of Dramascape maps or similar, whether the hexes are 1m or 2m in size depends on what scale they specify.

 

On hexmats, I've drawn maps at 1 hex = 2m scale, and at 1 hex = 1m scale, depending on the location.  Strictly indoor fight, you're generally good with 1m hexes.  Outdoors or indoor / outdoor combos tend to be 2m hexes for me. 

 

When using 2m hexes, I just tell people to divide their 6E movement (or AOE, etc.) by 2, rounding up.  Sometimes they forget, but  it's not worth making a stink about most of the time.

 

**  For cardstock maps I intend to use many times, I've put clear packing tape on the four corners of the backside of each tile, and then use a piece of scotch tape (with one end folded over for a non-sticky something to grab onto) across the tile intersections to hold the individual tiles together.  Number (or letter) the tiles on the backsides, and you can lay them out face-down in sequence, tape 'em together, then flip the finished map over.  Voila!

 

When you're done, flip it back over, pull the Scotch tape pieces off (you'll be thankful for the folded-over tab) and slap each onto one of the packing tape corners for later re-use.

 

Works great, IMO.

[Lucius]

It's funny, aside from the overall pleasantness of the Hero forum, I find, since I'm designing my own game system, that Hero gamers really think a lot in a lot of really interesting ways about things that are really game designing in nature. This week alone, I was putting a lot of thought on how experience and maps work out in my system, and lo and behold, here the hero gamers are both talking about their ways of dealing with both on the forum.

That's because Hero System isn't a game, it's a build-your-own-game kit.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary designer

[zslane]

I've never used the Hero System to build another game. It's not really designed for that. It is designed for building your own campaign setting though.

[Tasha]

I use a large hexmat, unless I'm using the rather excellent (IMO) Dramascape maps, printed onto cardstock "tiles" and trimmed** to put together at the game table.  In the case of Dramascape maps or similar, whether the hexes are 1m or 2m in size depends on what scale they specify.

 

On hexmats, I've drawn maps at 1 hex = 2m scale, and at 1 hex = 1m scale, depending on the location.  Strictly indoor fight, you're generally good with 1m hexes.  Outdoors or indoor / outdoor combos tend to be 2m hexes for me. 

 

When using 2m hexes, I just tell people to divide their 6E movement (or AOE, etc.) by 2, rounding up.  Sometimes they forget, but  it's not worth making a stink about most of the time.

 

**  For cardstock maps I intend to use many times, I've put clear packing tape on the four corners of the backside of each tile, and then use a piece of scotch tape (with one end folded over for a non-sticky something to grab onto) across the tile intersections to hold the individual tiles together.  Number (or letter) the tiles on the backsides, and you can lay them out face-down in sequence, tape 'em together, then flip the finished map over.  Voila!

 

When you're done, flip it back over, pull the Scotch tape pieces off (you'll be thankful for the folded-over tab) and slap each onto one of the packing tape corners for later re-use.

 

Works great, IMO.

I don't cut all of the white boarders and use gluestick to put map pieces together

[Tasha]

I've never used the Hero System to build another game. It's not really designed for that. It is designed for building your own campaign setting though.

He means that with Hero, you can use it to build a fully realized game using the whole system. You still have the core of Hero for the basis and for play. You build talents, spells, equipment etc with the toolkit. Then players use those built items to make their characters. It's something that is very powerful for Heroic Games, but not really as useful for Superhero games

[zslane]

Strange way to express all that; calling the Hero System "not a game".

[Rails]

It's not a game; it's a way of life!