Experiences With Heroic Action Points

[Cantriped]

I was reviewing the rules for Heroic Action Points (CC 130; FHC 153) this afternoon. Although CC/FHC are my primary rules references, I've never actually used these rules before. In campaigns I've run in the past I've simply ignored them.

 

I'm writing today to poll the Hero Games community regarding their experiences with Heroic Action Points.

How do you feel about Heroic Action Points?

Have you ever played in campaigns using them?

Have you ever run campaigns using them?

What was their impact on those campaigns?

[steriaca]

I'm writing today to poll the Hero Games community regarding their experiences with Heroic Action Points.

How do you feel about Heroic Action Points?

Honestly, no opinion either way. I started playing durring the time of the BBB, and quite simply haven't played much 5th edition, and both real life and not finding local Hero gamers prevents me from 6ed/CC.

 

Have you ever played in campaigns using them?

Nope.

 

Have you ever run campaigns using them?

Again, no.

 

What was their impact on those campaigns?

It can't impact what I don't have.

[Amorkca]

I am currently running a Superhero game and the players are beginning to get their powers (Yay!!)

 

Have not used HAP's but am considering them for use in the next week or so, will let you know whether I will continue to use them afterwards...

[Surrealone]

 

How do you feel about Heroic Action Points?

I like HAP -- primarily because players can use them to keep dramatically inappropriate things from happening just because of poor dice throws.  We actually have one player who, for whatever reason, tends to roll very poorly ... and HAP keeps in check his real-world 3d6 Unluck (apparently bought with the [+1] 'only applies to RPGs' Advantage ... such that the value of the disadvantage/complication is halved).

​Strings of bad dice rolls should never have so much power in a game such that they dictate storyline in absolute fashion, but, unfortunately, without something to normalize them ... that's exactly what can happen.  Likewise, I don't think a GM should have to constantly work to deal with the outcomes of repeatedly bad dice throws.  A bad throw here/there, sure (that's fun!), but a constant storyline mess due to dice throws ... is not fun for anyone.

HAP prevent that sort of thing... by normalizing the impact the dice have on the game ... allowing more fixation on the storyline and less on the outcome of dice.  If I wanted fixation on the outcome of dice, I'd go play chartmaster (aka Rolemaster)...

 

 

Have you ever played in campaigns using them?

What was their impact on those campaigns?

The current campaign in which I am playing uses HAPs.  It is the first in which I've played where they are used.

 

I should underscore that it's a 5er game where the GM, who is largely opposed to a wholesale migration to 6e, recognized the value of HAP rules helping to maintain dramatic appropriateness and storylines (especially given our one guy whose dice hate him).  So, he imported HAP rules into our 5er game.  I think that speaks volumes about their potential benefits...

This was done in a way that made sense to our game:  at the start of the campaign this GM reserved some points for mystery powers and mystery disadvantages on each player's character sheet.  HAP were introduced as a revelation of a mystery power that all of the player-characters possess ... at a plot point that made sense for the campaign.  In our case, the mystery power is 1d6 of HAP rolled at the beginning of each scenario -- representing an otherworldly influence that the characters all have legitimate reasons to be able to exert on probabilities/outcomes within their world.

 

This means that, in our game:

• 1d6 HAP costs CP .... and is an ability that certain entities may have
• 1d6 HAP is the max each player-character can have

 

I find 1d6 HAP to be more than adequate, and cannot imagine having 2d6 worth of HAP in each session, as it would seem like overkill (to me).  Part of this is that our GM allows us to use HAP to modify allies' rolls -- since it makes sense in our game (given the above).  So, even someone who drops a 1 for his/her usable HAP in the session can still overcome more than just 1 bum roll (or a roll where a miss occurred by more than 1) thanks to other player-characters helping out.

​Generally, the group tends to use HAP solely to overcome crappy rolls ... but occasionally when someone has 6 HAP for the session we'll see someone use it for DCV ... or to enhance a roll (example: called shot) that the player feels is particularly important to the storyline progression.  I really think having 1d6 instead of 2d6 plays into how this game's players use it ... because having fewer HAP seems to correlate with saving them for emergency uses in our game.

 

I've never seen HAP have an unwanted or negative effect on the storyline.  I've even seen the proverbial truck (18) get dropped in this game and the player who dropped it choose to live with it instead of spending 1 HAP to eliminate the critical failure -- but this is a very experienced gaming group that can and does enjoy the occasional critical failures as well as critical successes.  (I would expect that most players/groups to blow 1 HAP to offset critical failures like that ... which I think is fine; we just happen to enjoy the lows as well as the highs.)

 

 

 

 

[kukuli]

I run a steampunk/pulp game using Pulp Hero for 5er. HAPs are included in Pulp Hero.  I like it.  HAPs  give the players some sense of control. There have never been any problems, everyone budgets their Haps carfully.  I also ruled that an 18 is an automatic fail so no Haps are allowed, although, a standard luck roll may be called for in an emergency.  I also have a house rule that the same luck dice are used for HAPs and luck rolls.  The number of dice they can buy is based on character conception and cost.  I talked to each of my players during character creation to insure that they would not abuse thier luck. For the last 6 years it has worked fine.

[Spence]

I use a version on HAP's in all my over the top type games regardless of system.   Supers, Pulp and Anime/Martial Arts, etc. 

Though, my version of HAP's are different and I was using them years before they appeared in Hero. 

 

Some have said my version is too broad and "unbalancing", but I prefer to say that my version provokes HUGE DRAMATIC ACTIONS by the Heroes! Broad and sweeping ones that most likely would not have occurred in a normal game.

 

But their appropriateness and use in a game really depends on they style/feel you are looking for.

[Lucius]

I have used a version I call Fortune POints, which have a variety of uses. My players seem to like them and use them, except one guy who always seems to forget they exist. I usually give out three at the beginning of the session. I give out less if I don't want them to be able to escape a scenario too easily, and more if they're facing an unusual challenge and might need the help.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And fortunate palindromedary

[bigdamnhero]

I use Hero Points in all my games, and have for years. Everyone starts 1d6 per session. For my convention/demo games - which tend to run fast & furious - everyone gets 2d6. Plus I hand out a few in-game for good roleplaying, playing up Complications and such; in practice each player probably gets an additional 1 HAP per 2-3 sessions. But the most anyone can carry at one time 3, which keeps them from overpowering the game. (As they do in some systems, like Savage Worlds.)

 

As noted above, they keep One Bad Roll from ruining the game. (Tho as mentioned above, I don't allow rerolls for 18s.) Players can also reroll a mediocre roll if they think maybe they can do better, but the limited number of rerolls available means they have to be careful about when they do that.

 

We also use them as "plot points" to make minor changes in the plot, scenery, etc, subject to GM approval. For example: the armor you found just happens to fit you, or there just happens to be something soft under the window you fell out of. This is actually my favorite use for them, as it gives the players more agency to help create the story, rather than just reacting to it, while also providing a mechanism for doing so to keep things from going completely freeform "story game."

 

Luck-based characters get additional HAPs for every 1d6 of Luck, which is a great way to let them use their Luck while also quantifying/limiting it so that their luck eventually runs out. We've similarly incorporated them into other character concepts. For example in my current FH game, HAPs represent Divine Favor rather than Luck. The Priest has a Talent that lets him bank unused HAPs as "Grace" which he can then use to Aid his Miracles VPP. So there are lots of ways you can use them.

 

You can also have fun with how they're "narrated" in game. I like having the players describe "OK, so your shot would've missed, but...?" and they come up with some funny reason like it missed the character but hit some piece of scenery which falls on them (conveniently doing the same amount of damage). I know one GM who treats them as the Director yelling "Cut! The stunt man missed his mark, let's try that one again."

[bigdamnhero]

We actually just had a fundraiser game day Saturday to help a local gamer with some medical bills. (Raised over $10K!) One of the things they did was that you could buy tokens for $1 a piece, that you can use as HAPs/Bennies/whatever else the GM allows. One Pathfinder GM let players use them to buy additional Talents/magic items for their characters. I had one player in my game burn through 10-15 in a 4-hour slot, partly to dodge bad rolls but mostly to make minor plot changes or just have something funny happen. Obviously that's a lot more than I would normally allow, but we all had a lot of fun and it was for a good cause. Even GMs could buy/use them, which was nice - let's be honest, most GMs cheat now and then, but rarely do we raise money by doing so!

[bigdamnhero]

There was a good thread a few months back on different ways to use HAPs.

[Tasha]

I was reviewing the rules for Heroic Action Points (CC 130; FHC 153) this afternoon. Although CC/FHC are my primary rules references, I've never actually used these rules before. In campaigns I've run in the past I've simply ignored them.

 

I'm writing today to poll the Hero Games community regarding their experiences with Heroic Action Points.

How do you feel about Heroic Action Points?

Have you ever played in campaigns using them?

Have you ever run campaigns using them?

What was their impact on those campaigns?

I Love the idea behind HAP and have used a similar thing in Savage Worlds. Where it works well. Also FFG's StarWars has something like it. What I dislike about the Hero Implementation is that it's complicated. THe players need a cheat sheet to know how many HAPs can be used to what effect. Also, I find that it's easy for the GM to forget to award any HAPs. I prefer a simpler system like SW's Bennies. Where the players get 3 or more Bennies at the start of a session which can be turned in for a number of things. You can even get them back during play for doing something really epic.

[Tasha]

We actually just had a fundraiser game day Saturday to help a local gamer with some medical bills. (Raised over $10K!) One of the things they did was that you could buy tokens for $1 a piece, that you can use as HAPs/Bennies/whatever else the GM allows. One Pathfinder GM let players use them to buy additional Talents/magic items for their characters. I had one player in my game burn through 10-15 in a 4-hour slot, partly to dodge bad rolls but mostly to make minor plot changes or just have something funny happen. Obviously that's a lot more than I would normally allow, but we all had a lot of fun and it was for a good cause. Even GMs could buy/use them, which was nice - let's be honest, most GMs cheat now and then, but rarely do we raise money by doing so!

PEG Sells Poker Chips that are themed with their various game worlds. They make a great way to give out stuff  like HAPs.

[Nolgroth]

I like the idea of HAPs but I have not extensively used them. My favorite take on the subject is from Fantasy Flight Game's Force Unleashed wherein there is a limited economy of points. When a player uses one, it becomes a GM use. When the GM uses one, it shifts back over to the player pool.

 

Haven't used that mechanic yet, but I plan to.

[dsatow]

My players generally don't use them, but I do offer them.  I agree with other commenters that its mostly used to try and compensate for bad luck of the players or good luck of the GM.  I allow them to use the points to re-roll bad rolls.  Sadly, I have a couple of players who will use this option after rolling a 17 to hit and end up rolling a 18.

[bigdamnhero]

What I dislike about the Hero Implementation is that it's complicated.

Yeah, we use an extremely simplified version.

[Tasha]

I like the idea of HAPs but I have not extensively used them. My favorite take on the subject is from Fantasy Flight Game's Force Unleashed wherein there is a limited economy of points. When a player uses one, it becomes a GM use. When the GM uses one, it shifts back over to the player pool.

 

Haven't used that mechanic yet, but I plan to.

That's pretty much how FFG's system works. It begins with a dice roll by the players. Depending on what they roll the point either goes to the GM or the PCs. Every time a point is used by the GM, it becomes a player point and vice versa. I may try to carry that forward into other games.

[Spence]

 What I dislike about the Hero Implementation is that it's complicated.

 

Totally true.  My version is loosely based on Savage Worlds bennies and Ubiquity style points.

 

Much easier to use.

 

One point spends

Oh shit:    re-roll one of your die rolls (any kind)

 

Shake it off:   ignore being “stunned”.

 

Barely scratched me:   Remove one die per point spent from the roll for damage received.

 

Look! There’s one:    Mundane objects that just happen to be lying around when you need one. Rope, flashlight, etc

 

Coincidence:  A useful NPC just happens to be there. Beat cop, passing cabbie, etc.

 

Two point spends

Uncanny coincidence:    A specific useful NPC just happens to be there.

 

Eureka:   Pure inspiration for lost investigators.

 

I run a lot of mystery/investigative style games and I have discovered that sometime a "simple" clue isn't always simple

[bigdamnhero]

Personally I don't like using HAPs to "soak" damage or shake off being Stunned - makes them too powerful in my book. I've played too many Savage Worlds games where combats are decided less by skill or even luck, but by how many Bennies are left.

[Spence]

Personally I don't like using HAPs to "soak" damage or shake off being Stunned - makes them too powerful in my book. I've played too many Savage Worlds games where combats are decided less by skill or even luck, but by how many Bennies are left.

 

As I mentioned up above, some do find it a bit too broad or unbalancing. 

 

But I mainly use them in over the top SUPER action 

 

In my experience this mix of buys tends to overcome over-caution players have developed from games like D&D where death is the result of losing a battle or other action encounter.

 

Plus it also depends on the style of game and how many points they have to spend and if they have opportunities to spend points on other things than fighting.  Dramatic chases!  Nerve shattering races against time!

 

A game that relies on battles for all its action is a bit on the boring side

[Tasha]

I have seen Bennies used to prevent characters from dying. So I don't mind using it for some sort of damage soak. I always run Cinematic games, so I don't mind if the PCs shrug off the mega attack once.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Even in a real gritty game Hero Points are worth using, just don't throw so many of them out there.  Make them something players use for emergencies rather than throw around constantly like Savage Worlds (Ooh, I missed, bennie.  Ooh, I did low damage bennie.  Ooh I didn't get a cheeseburger...).  The idea is for players to have fun, not be butchered, so using one to save a character from obliteration or to get that critical die roll right is fine for dramatic purposes, I think.

[TheDarkness]

I actually have, for gritty game, used a 'great death' factor for things usually handed out as heroic action points.

 

In such cases, there were a variety of great deaths that could occur. Some might mean the character had hours to tie up loose strings(i.e. walk in on enemies eating dinner and take care of them, etc.) In some cases, it might mean they survived with injuries that would never heal. In all cases, they were guaranteed legendary status in the world and, if they lived, NPC status.

 

This is for games where it is assumed you will have a couple back-up characters at all times, and was a way to keep things gritty for that game, while not making death all that bad. It would not be at all unusual for a newer character to get training from one of the crippled old legends that was actually a previous character.

[LouisGoncey]

i only occasionally use 6th edition, mostly use 4th edition, but have never used HAPs -- it is not why I use HERO...

 

When I play FUDGE or D6 I use their equivalents of HAPs.