Xotl Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 So I'm going through 3rd edition's Enemies: The International File in my general attempt to update those villains I thought worth saving to 6th edition. Riplash (p. 27) has a couple of advantages on her 5D6 entangle that I'm not sure about. The first is one that increases the entangle by 1 DEF each segment. It's listed as a +3/4 advantage. I'm wondering if: a.) that's legal b.) that's a standard option for entangles, and c.) you think the advantage modifier is fair She also has with the entangle "has one BODY only, only vs. one victim at a time" for a collective -1. Now, "only has 1 Body" is a standard option for -1/2, but the way that this is glued to "only one victim at a time" confuses me. I would assume that "only one victim at a time" would be it's own -1/2 limitation (assuming that value is right as well, which is another thing I'm not sure about). Lastly, she has an attack with a 2D6 RKA that's "Based on Entangle" at a -1/2 modifier. What exactly does that mean? Linked, if I had to guess, but I'm not sure. They're both (the RKA and the Entangle) listed as coming from her whip arm, which is a focus, if that matters. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I'm not familiar with the original character, so take the following with that grain of salt. For the ever increasing DEF, that's not an existing Advantage for Entangles or anything else that I'm aware of. I'd probably do the increasing DEF as an Aid with the Damage Over Time and an appropriately long fade rate. You could potentially also do it as a partially-Advantaged Entangle where the 2nd half only has 1 Body and has the Damage Over Time for the slowly increasing DEF. For the 1 BODY/1 Victim, I'd also do those as separate -1/2 Limitations. My guess is that the RKA is something that can only be done to an Entangled victim. What I'm imagining is that the whip carries some kind of energy attack that travels along the whip to the victim. I'd probably build that either as an RKA with an Only vs Entangled Victims and Indirect (from whip) modifiers; or as an RKA, No Range, AoE Surface (whip) attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 23, 2017 Report Share Posted February 23, 2017 I would probably build it as a variant of cumulative: 1 PD/ ED per phase up to a maximum doubling, and you can buy the doubling up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Increasing Entangle was an Advantage in Champions III that didn't make it into 4e or later. As for only affecting a single target, I don't have any other 3e core rule books, but is it possible that Entangle used to be Area Effect by default? I know that Flash was automatically Area Effect before 4e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 My interpretation of that Lim is that you can only have a single entangled target at a time. If you want to entangle someone else, you have to release the first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Ah yes, of course. I'm dumb. So the modern equivalent would be Lockout. One of the examples in 6E1 is even an Entangle that can only affect one target at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Well, as I recall, pre 5e character write-ups were often lacking in the SFX explanation department. Heck, a lot of the time, powers didn't even have catchy names. They were often just written up as Blast 10d6 and, if you were lucky, the Powers/Tactics section might actually define what that blast was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Ankylosaur was my favorite example of the lousy old writeups. he was a picture and a set of powers. No information about what most of those powers even were, or how they were used. He had all these blasts and explosions when it just looked like he was a guy in armor with a spiked tail, what is going on here?? I didn't even know what most of his abilities were supposed to be until 4th edition gave a bit more information: grenades fired from the tail, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 The first is one that increases the entangle by 1 DEF each segment. It's listed as a +3/4 advantage. I'm wondering if: a.) that's legal b.) that's a standard option for entangles, and c.) you think the advantage modifier is fair a & b: no, not under RAW. c: It seems potentially unbalancing to me, especially if it doesn't specify an upper limit to the DEF? Cumulative might work. Alternately, you could buy the Entangle based on the Maximum DEF with a Limitation for "Starts at X DEF, adds 1 DEF per Segment up Y DEF." She also has with the entangle "has one BODY only, only vs. one victim at a time" for a collective -1. Yeah, I'd split that into two -1/2 Lims just to be more clear. Lastly, she has an attack with a 2D6 RKA that's "Based on Entangle" at a -1/2 modifier. It does sound like Linked, but maybe the RKA damage is also based on how well she rolls on the Entangle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 As I recall, the Entangle "hardened" at +1 per phase, until it hit twice the original defenses. From that perspective, and recognizing Entangle was "+1d6 BOD and +1 DEF for 10 points", +3/4 to add 1 per phase, capping at double the initial amount, was pretty pricy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xotl Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 As I recall, the Entangle "hardened" at +1 per phase, until it hit twice the original defenses. From that perspective, and recognizing Entangle was "+1d6 BOD and +1 DEF for 10 points", +3/4 to add 1 per phase, capping at double the initial amount, was pretty pricy. The wording on the character writeup is that it gets stronger "per segment", not per phase (unless they changed the definition of segment and phase between 3rd and 4th ed, I suppose). At a max of twice the original DEF (5), that would be +5 DEF in 5 segments. Let's see: in 6th ed you can just buy the +5 DEF outright for +15 points (it actually comes as +2 DEF per 5 points, which means 15 points would get you +6 DEF, but it caps at a max of double the starting DEF (5), so that's +5 DEF instead of +6). With that there's no waiting 5 segments for it to take action. That does sound better than taking a +3/4 advantage (3 or 4 points cheaper, and the effect is immediate rather than delayed). Seems like it should be a +1/2 instead. In any case, it sounds like I should find a copy of Champions III. I wonder if there were any other advantages and disadvantages like that that didn't carry over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Here's the writeup for Increasing Entangle, from Champions III: This Advantage represents an Entangle that gets stronger with time. The Entangle is thrown normally, then gets +1 DEF and +1d6 (looking for body) every segment or phase. the advantage depends upon how fast the entangle hardens. The Entangle can never get harder than 2x base DEF and BODY. Entangle adds +1 DEF and +1d6 each phase +x1/2 Entangle adds +1 DEF and +1d6 each segment +x3/4 The other advantages listed were either folded into different advantages and powers, or are just standard, except one. Increased Knockback was a +¼ advantage for -1d6 knockback. So a normal attack would roll 1d6 and subtract that from the body total to determine knockback, etc. This was dropped with 4th edition and replaced with "double knockback" but I'm not sure why. *edit: yes, that's how they showed advantages in old editions.. but not 100% consistently in Champions III, sometimes it was just +1/2 or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xotl Posted February 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Interesting, thanks. Speaking of Knockback, I see Orb, from the same Enemies volume, has a -2D6 Knockback advantage as a +1/2 modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted February 24, 2017 Report Share Posted February 24, 2017 Right, that's the Increased Knockback advantage, bought twice to reduce it to no reduction in most cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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