Input on some House Rules ideas...

[kjandreano]

I'd like to get some input on a few House Rules ideas I have, starting with a new advantage:

 

Unstoppable +1/4

The Unstoppable advantage makes an attack that cannot be stopped by any means after a successful to-hit roll has been made. Abilities such as block, missile deflection/reflection, etc. cannot stop an attack bought as Unstoppable. This advantage does not effect the OCV or DCV of the attacker or defender and all damage is applied normally.

Example: Mega Zap Man fires his Blast with the Unstoppable advantage at Deflection Man. Mega Zap Man hits Deflection Man’s DCV with the attack. Defection Man tries to use his Missile Deflection to stop the attack, but since it has the Unstoppable advantage, the attempt fails and the damage of the Blast is applied to Defection Man’s Energy Defense as normal.

 

 

This one wouldn't come up very often, but it would ruin the day of a PC that relies on Missile Deflection as their defense!   

 

[massey]

Edit:  Sorry, I misread the original post.  Thought this was a place to post our own house rules.  My bad.

 

 

 

Not Affected By Damage Reduction  +1/4 per level up to +3/4

This Advantage reduces the effect of an opponents Damage Reduction by one level.  75% Damage Reduction becomes 50%.  50% becomes 25%.  If reduced below 25%, the Damage Reduction ceases to function.  This Advantage can be bought multiple times.

 

Our group has discussed this Advantage, and everyone feels it's appropriately priced.  But honestly it hasn't come up often enough for us to feel like we need to take it.  We tend to favor lots of dice over a heavily advantaged power.

 

 

Body from Stun Loss

For every 50 Stun taken past defenses, before Damage Reduction is applied, the target loses 1 Body from shock.  This is in addition to any Body they may take from the attack itself.

 

We have used this for at least 10 years.  Theoretically it allows bricks to beat each other to death in a prolonged combat, which they really can't under the normal rules.

 

 

Marginal Power  Limitation value varies, the same price as Activation Roll with Burnout

This represents a power that a character can use on occasion, but for whatever reason often fails to do so.  It does not represent a character trying to use a power and failing, it represents effectively "forgetting" that you even have a power.  When a player wishes to use a marginal power, he makes an Activation Roll.  If the roll is successful, the power can be used for the remainder of the game session.  If he fails, the power is not available.  Attempting to use the power does not require an action unless the attempt succeeds.

 

An idea shamelessly stolen from the DC Heroes mailing list, this hasn't come up too often either, but I really like it for modeling characters.  Basically this limitation represents situations where the writer has either forgotten or just didn't know that a character had a particular ability.  The character is placed in a situation where the ability would be very handy, yet he doesn't use it.  He doesn't try to use the power and fail (hence why it doesn't use an action).  The power is just not available.  No one even comments "hey why don't you just fly us out of this pit, Superman?"  For purposes of the game, the ability basically ceases to exist.  He can try to use it again next session. 

[dsatow]

Unstoppable +1/4:  

I don't know.  I'd think it be pretty powerful attached to an Area of Effect since by definition, it would stop Dive for Cover.  It may also be powerful against Roll with the Blow.  Also, normally a block would be applied before a to hit roll is done (same with missile deflect), its just that some GMs are a little lax on this subject.  It might be better to describe it as unblockable and just include missile deflection.

 

Not Affected By Damage Reduction  +1/4 per level up to +3/4

I can see it as appropriately price but never used.  The question would honestly be how it would work special effect wise.  If I have two characters with damage reduction, one huge and one good at rolling with blows, why would the attack treat them the same?

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like the Unstoppable concept, its related to the "can be deflected" limitation in 5th edition, and makes sense.

 

To me the Not Affected by Damage reduction is way too expensive for what you get.  A straight +1/4 works better for me for all levels: Irreducible.

[Surrealone]

Body from Stun Loss

For every 50 Stun taken past defenses, before Damage Reduction is applied, the target loses 1 Body from shock.  This is in addition to any Body they may take from the attack itself.

 

We have used this for at least 10 years.  Theoretically it allows bricks to beat each other to death in a prolonged combat, which they really can't under the normal rules.

Damn, that's sweet; I can see so many places where it makes sense.

 

It seems like it would be a Complication.  Out of curiosity, what's the usual value you place on it?

[massey]

Damn, that's sweet; I can see so many places where it makes sense.

 

It seems like it would be a Complication.  Out of curiosity, what's the usual value you place on it?

 

It's just a campaign rule.  It applies to everybody, nobody gets any points for it.  

 

I should clarify, it kicks in if you take 50+ Stun in one hit.  Taking 25 Stun twice, in two different hits, doesn't trigger it.  Technically it's for every 50 Stun you take past defenses.  So if somebody hits you for 100 past, you take 2 Body.

 

We played in a pretty high powered game at the time, and Damage Reduction was very common.  It wasn't rare for somebody to swing with a 30D6 haymaker (4th edition) or some other god-awful powerful attack.  So we liked the idea that the really big attacks would still do some Body, even if they didn't actually go past the guy's PD.

[Surrealone]

Thanks for the clarification.  I read it to mean every 50 STUN total taken (i.e. not 50 STUN that got past defenses in one hit).  I can still see it being useful in both forms.

[Asperion]

I'd like to get some input on a few House Rules ideas I have, starting with a new advantage:

 

Unstoppable +1/4

The Unstoppable advantage makes an attack that cannot be stopped by any means after a successful to-hit roll has been made. Abilities such as block, missile deflection/reflection, etc. cannot stop an attack bought as Unstoppable. This advantage does not effect the OCV or DCV of the attacker or defender and all damage is applied normally.

Example: Mega Zap Man fires his Blast with the Unstoppable advantage at Deflection Man. Mega Zap Man hits Deflection Man’s DCV with the attack. Defection Man tries to use his Missile Deflection to stop the attack, but since it has the Unstoppable advantage, the attempt fails and the damage of the Blast is applied to Defection Man’s Energy Defense as normal.

 

 

This one wouldn't come up very often, but it would ruin the day of a PC that relies on Missile Deflection as their defense!   

 

The greatest problem that I can see with this is that it effectively make an attack that comes with no defense.  In both Heroes and reality, all attacks need something that will balance the attack - the defense for the attack.  In Heroes, think of the NND modifier.  It effectively does the same thing as this does and requires the attack to take something that will stop it, same with the lesser advantage AVAD.

 

Marginal Power  Limitation value varies, the same price as Activation Roll with Burnout

This represents a power that a character can use on occasion, but for whatever reason often fails to do so.  It does not represent a character trying to use a power and failing, it represents effectively "forgetting" that you even have a power.  When a player wishes to use a marginal power, he makes an Activation Roll.  If the roll is successful, the power can be used for the remainder of the game session.  If he fails, the power is not available.  Attempting to use the power does not require an action unless the attempt succeeds.

 

I like this modifier, however I would make it a limitation similar to how I require Nova Powers to take Ego rolls with a strong penalty, in addition to several other mods. 

[kjandreano]

The greatest problem that I can see with this is that it effectively make an attack that comes with no defense.  In both Heroes and reality, all attacks need something that will balance the attack - the defense for the attack.  In Heroes, think of the NND modifier.  It effectively does the same thing as this does and requires the attack to take something that will stop it, same with the lesser advantage AVAD.

 

Um... I think you completely misread the advantage description!

All it does is not allow block or deflection/reflection to be used.

It doesn't make the attack NND, all defenses are applied as normal. 

The to-hit roll is the same as normal as well.

Typically, against characters without missile deflection, this advantage is useless.

[JasonPacker]

On Unstoppable - do you mean for it to include Dive for Cover, as mentioned above? I can see this being applicable to a power that only needs to make contact, like an electrical attack that, even if you block it, you're getting jolted, but it doesn't quite match up with that end goal if you include Area Effect powers and don't allow people to still dive for cover. So I'm curious.

 

Liking the spirit of the "extra BODY from too much STUN" but strangely need help in the other direction. Put two STR 10, PD 2, REC 4 guys into a brawl and one of them is going to wind up dead before either one is unconscious, more often than not, and ain't nobody running out of END.

[Mister E]

How about:

 

"Unstoppable": +10 OCV (50 ap); Limited Power (Extra OCV Only vs. Blocks, Deflections & Reflections; -1).

 

(Total cost = 25 cp)

[Mister E]

There is also Roll With A Punch.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Another House rule ideas I have used (in short hand):

 

ACV “touch” Attacks the target at half DCV, to represent the fact that it is much easier to merely make contact with a target without needing to harm it.  ACV Touch is available only for melee attacks, it cannot be purchased for range.  Powers with this advantage are considered special attacks - thus Autofire and Reduced END are increased in cost.  
ACV "touch" is a +1/2 Advantage

 

 

Another, to replace or supplement the "use Area effect to represent never miss" kludge:

 

ACV NNE "No Normal Evasion" or "always hits"; damage is made stun only, the character must define a way to avoid being hit; does not ignore LOS rules.

NNE is a +1 advantage

 

 

I posted this one on another thread, but I'll put it here also:

 

AVAD Saving Throw: Players may build powers with an alternate form of NND which, instead of being blocked by a special defense or circumstance, is reduced or eliminated by a skill or characteristic roll.  As this is built as an AVAD, it becomes an attack which does no body damage, but the character can buy "does Body damage" if they wish.

If this roll is one that all characters have at a normal level (such as a characteristic roll or perception roll), then the advantage is +1/2.

If the roll is an unusual one or one that characters normally only have as a familiarity (such as stealth or a magic skill roll), then the advantage is is +3/4.

If the roll only halves the effect of the power rather than ignoring it, the advantage is +1/4.

If the roll is modified by -1/10 active points of the power it is +1/4 more of an advantage.

 

 

This is one I've always used and seems like it should be just basic to the rules

 

Explosion AE attacks can be pro rated by radius to dice.  Thus, a character who buys an area effect 8d6 attack can buy it any size they want, as long as it explosion fits in the area.  An 8d6 4m area explosion would lose 2d6/m for example.  A 12d6 area effect explosion in 24m would lose 1d6/2m.

 

 

One I'm still working on is a "seeking" advantage in which the attack continues to try to hit for a time period in increments like a DOT, but instead of doing damage over and over, it rolls to hit and only takes effect once independent of the character.  

 

It would necessarily be much cheaper than a DOT, but still an advantage.  The trick is working out how much multiple attacks are worth.  Clearly its not worth as much as a constant uncontrolled attack, but is worth quite a bit depending on how many times it tries to hit.  Each attack would be once per increment unless bought with autofire (again, it would be a special attack, so you would have to pay more for autofire).  The character would only pay END once and could act while the Seeker was going off.

 

This makes the attack very difficult to avoid, if it keeps going after you every few segments it will eventually hit.  And if you can buy it to allow stacking so you can have like 6 of them going off all at once, it could get pretty crazy.  But the concept allows some very interesting builds now challenging to attempt.

 

Maybe a chart like DOT, with number of attacks, but much cheaper.

[dsatow]

If we are talking just about house rules, here are some of mine for 6th ed.

 

Dive for Cover: You may Roll a Breakfall Roll at the same penalties as your Dive for Cover Roll to roll to your feet after a dive for cover.  Helps martial artists against a proliferation of area of effect attack since AoE has become cheap.

Dig: You get 1m or 1 Def of Tunneling per 10 strength for free (still costs end for strength used).  It simulates just digging through rubble and the like with your hands.  It also squashes the munchkin barrier exploit of trapping people in all Body barriers.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like both of those quite a bit, they belong in everyone's campaign.

[kjandreano]

On Unstoppable - do you mean for it to include Dive for Cover, as mentioned above? I can see this being applicable to a power that only needs to make contact, like an electrical attack that, even if you block it, you're getting jolted, but it doesn't quite match up with that end goal if you include Area Effect powers and don't allow people to still dive for cover. So I'm curious.

 

It doesn't effect dive for cover (never even mentioned that). It doesn't make the attack AOE either. The ONLY thing it does is stop a block or missile deflect / reflect from working. If you dodge and don't get hit, you don't get hit. 

[kjandreano]

I'm reposting the (slightly updated) concept:

 

New Advantage:

 

Unstoppable +1/4

The Unstoppable advantage makes an attack that cannot be stopped by abilities such as block, missile deflection, or reflection. Any attempt to block, deflect, etc. automatically fails and cannot stop an attack bought as Unstoppable. The target will not know that this is the case until such an attempt fails. A successful to-hit roll still has to be made against the target’s DCV (or MDCV with a mental attack). This advantage does not effect the OCV or DCV of the attacker or defender and all damage is applied normally.

 

Example: Mega Zap Man fires his Blast with the Unstoppable advantage at Deflection Man. Defection Man tries to use his Missile Deflection to stop the attack, but since it has the Unstoppable advantage, the attempt automatically fails. Mega Zap Man then rolls to hit with the Blast and hits Deflection Man’s DCV. The damage of the attack is then applied to Defection Man’s Energy Defense as normal.