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How would you build: Electro-rapier


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#21 Hugh Neilson

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:07 PM

I was editing while you were posting. The "crank" has no chance of being lost or getting stuck, no possibility of requiring movement (perhaps somewhere the character does not want to go), no possibility the guy you tossed the knife at can kick it away, step on it or pick it up himself, etc. All the benefits, none of the drawbacks, and even the thrown knife being commonly retrieved in combat is a stretch compared to the RAW for recoverable charges.

So does your 1 phase criteria mean I just have to spend a phase gesturing and incanting to recover my spell and have it available to re-cast?

If the desire is "I crank for a phase and then attack", that sounds like a power that requires an extra phase to use, not charges or an END reserve. Being able to crank in advance, get a few uses before needing to crank, etc. makes the power more useful, so it should make it more expensive.
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#22 Cantriped

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:12 PM

Damage Shield is useful for representing a Power that coats an ally's weapon in flames, or for spells such as Heat Metal​ that don't damage the object targeted, but rather whomever is holding it or picks it up. Personally, I don't see the point in using Damage Shield to represent a specific weapon (such as a sword which is always coated in flames, or a baton that can deliver an electric shock on impact); considering that in many circumstances using Linked instead will produce the exact same result but cost far less.



#23 Hugh Neilson

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:13 PM

Agreed that Damage Shield is not the best build for this purpose. Maybe if the ElectroCharger could charge up any weapon or metallic object, rather than just "my weapon".

#24 Manic Typist

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 07:49 AM

The problem with Linked is that you should be able to use the shock without using the HKA of the blade. Press the flat of the blade against someone = zap.


Eosin- ~ "'Wrong' is a D&Dism ~ 'I do it this way' is a Heroism." SCUBA Hero- "If you did Turn the Palindromedary, how would you know? :think:" Roxanna: I need a margarita. Niels: I don't think Dwarves make mixed drinks. Ithan: That's because when Dwarves mix their alcohol, they get fire and explosions! It would be wonderful. It would be like that scene in that movie that everyone quotes where the one guy says something awesome to the other guy.

#25 Cantriped

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 09:22 AM

I don't really see that as a problem, but if you want to represent that sort of stun-baton/electro-rapier, than it is simply a pair of Attack Powers tied to the same focus which can be used as a Combined Attack (or not). You don't need any special modifiers to make a pair of Attacks qualify for Combined Attack, its a matter of common sense and special effect.

All you need for that power construct is two Attack Powers with Focus and either Zero END (for the physical portion) or Charges (for the electrical portion) (or an Endurance Reserve to power the electrical attack). For an Electro-Rapier, +1m of "Reach" is probably also appropriate. For a heroic campaign it also needs One-Handed, STR Min, and Real Weapon.


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#26 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:11 AM

Its two of the many options, with features for each.  Linked gives you a cheaper build but damage shield lets you use it in different ways.  Options! :)


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#27 Manic Typist

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:15 AM

Except that Blast is a Ranged power by default, so even if I were to go the Combined Attack route, I'd still need to add limitations that reflected that.

 

Otherwise the focus would be a sword that throws Blasts- which is still cool, but different.

 

Right now I'm leaning Damage Shield for simplicity/cost, though I'll stat out the other way. The player is new so I would like builds to be straight forward, hence my initial preference for Charges, though I'm going to take a hard look at Endurance Reserve.


Eosin- ~ "'Wrong' is a D&Dism ~ 'I do it this way' is a Heroism." SCUBA Hero- "If you did Turn the Palindromedary, how would you know? :think:" Roxanna: I need a margarita. Niels: I don't think Dwarves make mixed drinks. Ithan: That's because when Dwarves mix their alcohol, they get fire and explosions! It would be wonderful. It would be like that scene in that movie that everyone quotes where the one guy says something awesome to the other guy.

#28 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:27 AM

I suggest you keep the sausage making to yourself and just give them basic info how it works.  How is he going to know when the charges will run out, does it have a little meter on the hilt?  If you run the END reserve etc, it makes the sword feel less like a mechanical device and easier for the new player, in my opinion.


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#29 Hugh Neilson

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 11:58 AM

Except that Blast is a Ranged power by default, so even if I were to go the Combined Attack route, I'd still need to add limitations that reflected that.


"No Range" is pretty easy. Damage Shield seems pretty pricy to work only when the character strikes with the sword (whether to Blast, HKA or both). Now, if there are a lot of weapons in the campaign, and the DS is taken to work whenever the character is armed with the sword, has the DS up and is hit by an opponent, HTH or with a metal weapon, on the basis he contacts the sword in the process of his attack, that could have some value to the character for the DS approach.

Actually, for pure simplicity, the charging could be built as +xDC to the Sword's KA, with the added SFX of changing it to energy damage.

#30 Hyper-Man

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 01:44 PM

Did anyone even bother to read my original response to this thread?

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#31 Manic Typist

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 02:58 PM

I did; it didn't look like the way I wanted to go with respect to using Change Environment.

 

I also think I only own APG1.


Eosin- ~ "'Wrong' is a D&Dism ~ 'I do it this way' is a Heroism." SCUBA Hero- "If you did Turn the Palindromedary, how would you know? :think:" Roxanna: I need a margarita. Niels: I don't think Dwarves make mixed drinks. Ithan: That's because when Dwarves mix their alcohol, they get fire and explosions! It would be wonderful. It would be like that scene in that movie that everyone quotes where the one guy says something awesome to the other guy.

#32 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:36 PM

The problem with Linked is that you should be able to use the shock without using the HKA of the blade. Press the flat of the blade against someone = zap.


With the lesser form of linked , you can.
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#33 Hyper-Man

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 03:45 PM

Sorry for the snappy response. Both APGs are great and worth adding to your collection.

;)
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#34 Manic Typist

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 04:12 PM

With the lesser form of linked , you can.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. Linked by default requires one power to be the "greater" power and the other "lesser." You can use the former without the latter, but not vice versa. 

 

I haven't found a reference to a "lesser" version of Linked (I could be missing it; but even still that sounds off because a version of it that allowed the relationship to go both ways instead of just one direction (as it by default is) sounds like an Advantaged version, not a Limitation.

 

Please correct my error if I am mistaken.


Eosin- ~ "'Wrong' is a D&Dism ~ 'I do it this way' is a Heroism." SCUBA Hero- "If you did Turn the Palindromedary, how would you know? :think:" Roxanna: I need a margarita. Niels: I don't think Dwarves make mixed drinks. Ithan: That's because when Dwarves mix their alcohol, they get fire and explosions! It would be wonderful. It would be like that scene in that movie that everyone quotes where the one guy says something awesome to the other guy.

#35 Hugh Neilson

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 05:41 PM

Did anyone even bother to read my original response to this thread?


From the lack of comments, I assumed "cause the target to be stunned" was not the desired effect. All the same ways of creating the crackling electrical field would apply just as well to a CE: Stun, though.
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#36 Cantriped

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Posted 25 March 2017 - 07:52 PM

I'm sorry, I don't follow. Linked by default requires one power to be the "greater" power and the other "lesser." You can use the former without the latter, but not vice versa. 

 

I haven't found a reference to a "lesser" version of Linked (I could be missing it; but even still that sounds off because a version of it that allowed the relationship to go both ways instead of just one direction (as it by default is) sounds like an Advantaged version, not a Limitation.

 

Please correct my error if I am mistaken.

I believe he was thinking of the version of Linked which allows the "Lesser Instant Power" to be used in any phase in which a "Greater Constant Power" is in use... however that wouldn't be relevant as both powers are constant.

 

RAW with Linked you can:

Link the Lesser Power to the Greater Power, which requires that you to use the greater power in order to use the lesser power, but allows you to use the greater power without using the lesser power.

Link the Greater Power to the Lesser Power, which requires that you use the lesser power in order to use the greater power, but allows you to use the lesser power without using the greater power.

Jointly Link both Powers to one another, which requires that you always use both powers together. This form of Linked is represented by either taking the appropriate form of Linked on both powers (my preferred method, it is implied but not explicitly described by CC/FHC, and is presented as a variant rule in HS6th V1), or by increasing the value of Linked on the Lesser Power (generally to -3/4).

Regardless of the methodology chosen, the "advantage" of using Linked is that Linked Powers activate simultaneously with a single action (without using Combined Attack or Multiple Attack), and can be projected from the same origin point.



#37 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 08:01 AM

I'm sorry, I don't follow. Linked by default requires one power to be the "greater" power and the other "lesser." You can use the former without the latter, but not vice versa.

I haven't found a reference to a "lesser" version of Linked (I could be missing it; but even still that sounds off because a version of it that allowed the relationship to go both ways instead of just one direction (as it by default is) sounds like an Advantaged version, not a Limitation.

Please correct my error if I am mistaken.

Well could be wrong cause I haven't got a chance to double check but I believe at -1/4 linked does what I think it does.
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#38 Cantriped

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Posted 26 March 2017 - 09:28 AM

Well could be wrong cause I haven't got a chance to double check but I believe at -1/4 linked does what I think it does.

If either power can be used without using the other power, than they aren't Linked, they simply both originate from the same Focus.

 

The legal -1/4 versions of Linked include:

A Greater Power is Linked to a Lesser Power.

A Lesser Power is Linked to a Greater Power which is Constant (or in use most or all of the time).

An Instant Lesser Power is Linked to a Greater Constant Power, and can be used in any phase in which the Greater Power is in use.

A Lesser Power is Linked to a Greater Power, but it need not be used in proportion to the Greater Power.


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#39 Netzilla

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 01:00 PM

One of the reasons I recommended Damage Shield for the electricity was so that anyone touching the blade would get shocked without any action needed on the wielder's part.  While not explicitly called out in the original post, it seemed a logical extrapolation of what was being described.  Without Damage Shield, the electricity only comes into play when the wielder initiates an attack.  If that's not a needed, then Damage Shield isn't needed.


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#40 Mister E

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 03:47 PM

"How would you build: Electro-rapier"?

Weaponsmith
Electronics
WF: Elecro-rapier

;)

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