Substituting maneuvers for each other

[Christopher R Taylor]

This being Hero, crush is just a name for a game mechanic. As you know Special Effect can be anything. 

 

 

Yes and no.  The Crush maneuver is mooshing someone, not cutting off oxygen.  Its not a mechanic, its a specific combat maneuver, and while they're somewhat flexible, they do have boundaries.  You can't do a throw maneuver by wrapping your hands around someone's throat and squeezing.

[Ninja-Bear]

Yes and no. The Crush maneuver is mooshing someone, not cutting off oxygen. Its not a mechanic, its a specific combat maneuver, and while they're somewhat flexible, they do have boundaries. You can't do a throw maneuver by wrapping your hands around someone's throat and squeezing.

Where is that specifically in Hero system rules? You can define any damage special effect any way you want (as long as GM approves naturally). That's like saying blast can't used for knockout gas because the power is called Blast.

[bigdamnhero]

Crush includes the element Must Follow Grab. So unless you're using a weapon you can Grab with, you can't Crush with it. I wouldn't call pinning someone against a wall a Grab. Also, strangulation is normally treated as an NND attack, so I'm not sure Crush would be the best way to model that anyway.

 

I get what you're saying that you can define the sfx any way you want, and normally I'm on board with that principle. But Maneuvers by their nature are a little more solidly defined than Powers. I mean you define a Grab as something that doesn't really involve grabbing, but at some point you've changed the maneuver so much you may as well use a different maneuver. It's not like Crush is the only way to add extra damage.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Where is that specifically in Hero system rules?

 

Its a combat maneuver, not a power, and its defined specifically.  In the Grab writeup it says this for the crush option:

 

Squeeze him. This does regular STR damage (STR/5 in d6 of Normal Damage) to the victim; the character retains his hold on the victim.

 

 

Crush is described in the Martial arts book repeatdly as being a move that follows a grab maneuver, as in:

 

Thunderhead, a SPD 3 pro wrestler, has a Crush Maneuver, which must follow a Grab.

 

 

This is always defined as a normal strength attack.

 

Crushing is even specifically contrasted with doing choke maneuvers.  In the "Grab Opponent" maneuver element, for example, it says:

 

Characters may buy additional damage for this Maneuver as N-Damage (for crushing or strangling), or as additional STR for holding on to a struggling target, or as both.

 

 

The Crush maneuver in the Martial Arts book is listed as:

 

Crush ½ 4 +0 +0 STR +4d6 Crush, Must Follow Grab

 

 

Not a choke, which is

 

Choke Hold ½ 4 -2 +0 Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND(2)

 

 

As Bigdamnhero notes, combat maneuvers are given some flexibility, but within pretty narrow structures: its like a blast does normal damage, and a drain takes away points, even though you can define the special effects all sorts of ways.  Crush is mooshing someone, choke is cutting off air.  You can define choke as a throat punch or a forearm across the windpipe or a punch to the solar plexus... but its still cutting off breathing any way you paint it.  Crush is always doing normal damage to compress someone, whether you sit on the or wrap them up with a bullwhip or use your legs to mash them or whatever.