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Heavy Lance Charge on Horseback


C-Note

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I can't figure out how to calculate damage for this. I understand that a charge is a "Move Through" or "Move By", a heavy lance is 2D6KA base, and a heavy warhorse has a STR of 30 and 20m of Running, but this is where I am stuck.  Also, is it the rider or the mount taking damage from the move through/move by?

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Treat the attack as a move by.  The rider, is the one that will take damage from the move by if any is dealt, since the horse is just the movement and not the attack.  The horse doesn't apply its strength to the attack, since it snot holding the lance.  You use the knight's strength (say, 18) and the horse's movement (since its providing the momentum).

 

So Move by: STR/2 plus V/10, and weapon damage.  A lance does 2d6 damage with 15 STR min, according to Fantasy Hero Complete*.

Assuming you hit with the -2 OCV penalty, the knight will use half their STR for damage (9) which adds nothing to the lance damage.  The velocity of the mount at 20m is +2 damage classes.  That's halved for a killing attack, so you deal 2d6+1 damage.

 

 

 

*Almost all weapon STR mins are too high in the books, incidentally.  You shouldn't have to be a linebacker to wield a sword.  Plus a lance is a long pointy object jammed into the target, so it probably should be Armor Piercing.

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To Correct Christopher above: It is the weapon, and not the rider that suffers recoil damage from a Move-By. You do not halve the added DCs from velocity for Killing Attacks when performing a Move-By.

 

The Rider would perform a Move-By (or Passing Strike). They would use their mount's velocity per Phase (v/10 in either case), and their own STR to determine the Damage (or STR/2 for Move-By), The rider's weapon would take the 1/3rd recoil damage instead of themselves (in the case of Move-By, Passing Strikes don't cause recoil damage).

 

For Example:

The Knight Who Said Nee (15 STR), riding upon his Dire Rabbit (Running 20m) charges an enemy using his Lance (FHC 249: 1 1/2d6; STR Min 13; ~7 rPD) as a Move-By. The Knights' effective STR drops to 8 (7.5 rounds up in this case), suffering a -1 penalty to OCV and DCs (per FHC 139). The Move-By imposes a -2 penalty to OCV and DCV (per FHC 176). The Dire Rabbit's velocity add +2 DCs (Where V=20m; V/10=2). In Total this Action imposes a -3 penalty to OCV, a -2 penalty to DCV, and adds a +1 DC bonus. If the attack hits it would cause a total of 2d6K (up from 1 1/2d6), and on an average result of 6 BODY, the Lance would have taken 2 BODY (and survived thanks to its ~7 rPD).

 

Had The Knight' instead performed a Passing Strike (FHC 182), their STR would not have been halved (and therefore they would suffer no OCV or DC penalty as a result of it), and the maneuver itself would have granted them +1 OCV bonus, and no DCV modifier. In total this Action would have granted a +1 bonus to OCV, and added +2 DCs. If the attack hits it would cause 2d6+1K (up from 1 1/2d6), and the lance would have taken no BODY regardless of the result or the rPD of the Lance.

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To Correct Christopher above: It is the weapon, and not the rider that suffers recoil damage from a Move-By.

 

Tell that to people who actually joust and feel the impact of that lance :)  Its braced so you don't lose the thing, and impart the horse's full momentum into the target.  The lance takes the damage, but so should the wielder.  Ever play baseball, hit the ball wrong and get a handfull of bees?

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I'm citing rules, not realism.

I've never played baseball (I was never very sporty), but I was trained in swordsmanship (shortsword and gauntlet style). Yes, realistically the recoil from the strike travels down the weapon and into your hand. However but that is true of any high-impact strike against a resisting object, not only those which would be represented with Move-By or Move-Through. Also, realistically the Lances used in jousting weren't all that sturdy, they frequently shattered on impact (meaning they probably had 2 rPD or less).

 

In practice, this level of actual realism just isn't as much fun, so game systems tend to ignore it in favor of cinematic realism.

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It isn't (see my correction above). The only thing halved by Move-By is the character's effective Strength (which might affect the damage of a weapon somewhat, but is unlikely to halve it).

 

Personally I've never understood why we halve Strength for Move-By though. Even more strangely, per the RAW for FHC, you also halve your Strength when making a Move-Through with a weapon (as the halving clause for weapons is contained in the set of rules shared by Move-By and Move-Through), but not for a Move-Through made without a weapon... It seems strange to me to have a maneuver that imposes significant penalties in order to add velocity-based damage at the expense of strength-based damage. Which is why characters I build that rely on such tactics almost always take Passing Strike, or one of its equivalents (such as Charge).

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Why is the damage bonus of a killing attack halved?

 

 

Combat maneuvers used to half DC increases for killing attacks, bit sixth edition dropped that, so I was wrong with my total, should be 2½d6 damage, which is pretty impressive.

 

That is a completely ineffective attack and not indicative to what the maneuver would actually do to a target in the source material. 

 

 

I agree, which is why I wouldn't simulate it with a move by.  I'd create a lance maneuver that is somewhat inaccurate and lower on DCV (say, -1 OCV and -2 DCV), adds V/6, and strength is not halved.  I'd leave the "attacker takes damage" because lances did get beat up pretty bad even if they weren't the breakable grand melee kind used in jousting.

 

Again; combat lances had a pointy sharp metal end, which could easily be ruled armor piercing.  Tournament jousting was with a split metal end or ball that would distribute damage rather than pierce.  And they were designed to shatter easily, so probably reduced penetration.

 

Personally I've never understood why we halve Strength for Move-By though.

 

 

It makes sense to me; you aren't actually hitting the target with a braced, full body attack, just one part as you go past.  You're just not going to get your full strength's power to exert.  That said, -5 STR probably makes more sense than half.

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It isn't (see my correction above). The only thing halved by Move-By is the character's effective Strength (which might affect the damage of a weapon somewhat, but is unlikely to halve it).

 

Personally I've never understood why we halve Strength for Move-By though. Even more strangely, per the RAW for FHC, you also halve your Strength when making a Move-Through with a weapon (as the halving clause for weapons is contained in the set of rules shared by Move-By and Move-Through), but not for a Move-Through made without a weapon... It seems strange to me to have a maneuver that imposes significant penalties in order to add velocity-based damage at the expense of strength-based damage. Which is why characters I build that rely on such tactics almost always take Passing Strike, or one of its equivalents (such as Charge).

Agreed. A knight who regularly practices lance charges from horseback would likely develop one of the Martial Maneuvers to use it with purely for efficiency sake.

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