bpmasher Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 Just looking for some ideas on this topic. I'm planning on running small scenarios with miniatures not unlike the gunfights in the movie itself. I haven't yet gotten my FRED book (pretty rare) but I have Dark Champions and I have read about the mechanics of the game elsewhere so I have a pretty good idea how things work. I need a little project to keep me occupied. PS. Limitations. Dependence: Cigarettes (5 points), Dependence: Alcohol (10 points). Psychological Limitation: Code of Honor (25 points) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 16, 2017 Report Share Posted June 16, 2017 I love that movie but haven't seen it in years. The brothers definitely have some pretty good gun skills. I wouldn't put them at the same competence as someone like John Wick (Keanu Reeves) but they sure seem to have some sort of military training with weapons. I never bothered to build a gun bunny in 5e rules but you are welcome to use my 6e John Wick build (see 1st post) for combat capability inspiration. Note that the names of many of the relevant Combat Maneuvers were changed from 5e to 6e so you will need to reference FRED and Dark Champions a lot (ex: Sweep and its ranged version were combined into Multiple Attack). HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Most of what they managed was luck based but they learned fast. Just a natural with guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 17, 2017 Report Share Posted June 17, 2017 Or maybe it was one guy with six guns! But seriously. Resource Point rules are a must for such a campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Here's the initial version of the brothers. I just assumed they both have the same stats in game terms. They ended up being quite costly when looking at the character point numbers, but I tried to remain modest as in the movie got on by luck and surprise. They are much less competent than the typical vigilante in the Dark Champions book, but they can put up a fight against a roomful of clueless mafiosos. This is them before the first hit on the Russian mafia men, falling through the roof. The Boondock Saints 5e 191 CP - 65 Disad. Points = 126 CP CHARACTERISTICS: (cost) STR 13 (3) DEX 15 (15) CON 13 (6) BODY 15 (10) INT 15 (5) EGO 15 (10) PRE 15 (5) COM 15 (2) PD 2 (3 rPD) ED 2 SPD 4 (20) REC 6 END 26 STUN 27 OCV 5 DCV 5 DISADVANTAGES: Dependence: Cigarettes (10 points), -1 to skill rolls after one hour Distinctive Feature: Tattoos (5 points) Income Level: Poor (5 points) Psych. Lim: Code of Honor: Only kills criminals (25 points) Psych. Lim: Vigilante Mentality (20 points) PERKS: Anonymity (3 points) Contact: David De La Rocco 11- (2 points) Contact: The Bartender 11- (2 points) TALENTS: Combat Luck 3 Resistant PD/ED (6 points) Resistance: Interrogation/Pain Tolerance +5 (5 points) SKILLS: +2 with Pistols (6 points) AK: Boston (2 points) Breakfall 12- (3 points) Fast Draw 12- (3 points) KS: TV Shows (1 point) Language: French (2 points) Language: Gaelic (2 points) Language: German (2 points) Language: Italian (2 points) Language: Latin (2 points) Language: Russian (2 points Language: Spanish (2 points) Oratory 12- (3 points) Streetwise 12- (3 points) Teamwork 12- (3 points) WF: Small Arms (2 points) POWERS/SUPER SKILLS: Luck O' the Irish [Luck 5d6] (25 points) Scenery Weapons [HA +3d6, OIF] (7 points) Two-Gun Kid [Two-Weapon Fighting, Ranged + Rapid Attack, Ranged] (15 points) EQUIPMENT (50 Equipment points = 10 points): 2x Beretta 92FS + Silencers [Cinematic] (15 Equipment points) 2x Concealment holster (2 points) Taser (Non-Ranged) (21 Eq. Points) Rope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Not sure their INT should be that high, they seemed neither clever, nor observant and didn't demonstrate particularly great memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Not sure their INT should be that high, they seemed neither clever, nor observant and didn't demonstrate particularly great memory. Yeah, I suppose. I just based it on them knowing several languages at fluent levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Regarding their Complications: I'm not a smoker, so I may be wrong... but I'd consider Cigarette Addiction to be a Psychological Complication more than a Dependence. It isn't so much that you need the Cigarette's to function, you are simply compelled to smoke regularly. These days I'd consider that a "Very Common, Moderate" complication since there are lots of times and places where smoking isn't acceptable, yet if need be most people can manage to make their EGO Rolls to resist temptation for a while. Also, I'm note sure how "Vigilante Mentality" qualifies as a Complication. What do they want to do that it prevents them from doing? What does it force them to do that they wouldn't want to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Also, I'm note sure how "Vigilante Mentality" qualifies as a Complication. What do they want to do that it prevents them from doing? What does it force them to do that they wouldn't want to do? Well, I'm a smoker and I know that when sometimes you can't have one, that's all you're thinking about. Nicotine is classified as a drug. Matter of opinion I suppose, and easy to fix. I got the vigilante mentality off the 5e Dark Champions book, where it mentions that it's a limited version of the casual killer complication. In the movie they talk about killing whoever they think is "bad". De La Rocco mentions that he's the guy they should listen to, and Connor says "I feel strangely comfortable with it" and the conversation ends as they decide to go after the whole Italian mafia in Boston, not considering the risks or repercussions. It might be a needless complication, since the whole premise of the movie (and the game) is that they kill bad guys, but from an objective view, it makes them pretty messed up people to a point where their decisions are based on whim rather than analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 I must be remembering a different movie because I recall a scene with a f****** rope where they fall from the ceiling and still manage to kill everyone in the room. That would take a little more skill. Also, why not Linguist? HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Also, why not Linguist? HM Limited Hero-Fu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Well, I'm a smoker and I know that when sometimes you can't have one, that's all you're thinking about. Nicotine is classified as a drug. Matter of opinion I suppose, and easy to fix. Like I said, I'm not a smoker, so my opinion in that regard isn't exactly the most credible. While I recognize it's an addictive drug, addiction itself strikes me as more of a compulsion than a dependence. I got the vigilante mentality off the 5e Dark Champions book, where it mentions that it's a limited version of the casual killer complication. To be fair; I don't generally consider Casual Killer a legitimate Complication either. For a Psychological Complication to be worth points, I think it has to force you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. For example, Code Versus Killing is worth points because it prevents you from killing your enemies even when you know perfectly well that they deserve it, or that leaving them alive is a terrible idea... Yet you can't bring yourself to do it, even if they are known to be child-raping mass-murderers. For Casual Killer to be worth points, it would have to be forcing you to make EGO Rolls not to kill people for cutting you off on the freeway, or not to kill your own minions when they bring you bad news that they had nothing to do with. Very few villains are presented as having that complication. One of my big complaints with the 5th edition write-ups was illegitimate Disadvantages (as they were called back then). You needed so many Disadvantage Points that it encouraged people to take Disadvantages they didn't really need or deserve. This carried over into 6th edition somewhat, because of lazy authoring, many villains still have two or three times the number of Complication Points they need, and in many cases Complications that they don't deserve or that don't really help define the character in a useful manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 22, 2017 Report Share Posted June 22, 2017 Great unofficial but commonly used resource for Disadvantages/Complications. http://brainfra.me/MasterListOfLims.html HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I remember that thing! The 'new' format is so cludgy though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Great unofficial but commonly used resource for Disadvantages/Complications. http://brainfra.me/MasterListOfLims.html HM What a cool site. I'll have to dig around there and make adjustments to these boys. Also, upping the power level of course sounds inviting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Like I said, I'm not a smoker, so my opinion in that regard isn't exactly the most credible. While I recognize it's an addictive drug, addiction itself strikes me as more of a compulsion than a dependence. To be fair; I don't generally consider Casual Killer a legitimate Complication either. For a Psychological Complication to be worth points, I think it has to force you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. For example, Code Versus Killing is worth points because it prevents you from killing your enemies even when you know perfectly well that they deserve it, or that leaving them alive is a terrible idea... Yet you can't bring yourself to do it, even if they are known to be child-raping mass-murderers. For Casual Killer to be worth points, it would have to be forcing you to make EGO Rolls not to kill people for cutting you off on the freeway, or not to kill your own minions when they bring you bad news that they had nothing to do with. Very few villains are presented as having that complication. One of my big complaints with the 5th edition write-ups was illegitimate Disadvantages (as they were called back then). You needed so many Disadvantage Points that it encouraged people to take Disadvantages they didn't really need or deserve. This carried over into 6th edition somewhat, because of lazy authoring, many villains still have two or three times the number of Complication Points they need, and in many cases Complications that they don't deserve or that don't really help define the character in a useful manner. I'll try and make the characters so that they have more legitimate complications in terms of gameplay. Just learning the system here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 Also, I'm note sure how "Vigilante Mentality" qualifies as a Complication. What do they want to do that it prevents them from doing? What does it force them to do that they wouldn't want to do? The character doesn't go to the cops, even when it would be to his benefit. He might think they are corrupt or incompetent, or simply in the way. To be fair; I don't generally consider Casual Killer a legitimate Complication either. For a Psychological Complication to be worth points, I think it has to force you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. For example, Code Versus Killing is worth points because it prevents you from killing your enemies even when you know perfectly well that they deserve it, or that leaving them alive is a terrible idea... Yet you can't bring yourself to do it, even if they are known to be child-raping mass-murderers. For Casual Killer to be worth points, it would have to be forcing you to make EGO Rolls not to kill people for cutting you off on the freeway, or not to kill your own minions when they bring you bad news that they had nothing to do with. Very few villains are presented as having that complication. That would be the most extreme form of the Complication. I see attitudes towards violence and killing as existing on a continuum: Code vs Killing: The character will take steps to avoid killing, even when the situation would would warrant it. No Complication: The character will take a, "good shoot" if he has to, but tries to avoid the situation if possible. (Good cops and soldiers are here.) Casual Killer: The character is looking to take somebody out. They may have a list of targets they consider acceptable (minority groups, terrorists, criminals, etc), or restrict themselves to situations where they think they can get away with it. A bad cop might have this at (Common, Moderate). He's more interested in shooting criminals than arresting them, but he realizes that he has to make it look reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 I must be remembering a different movie because I recall a scene with a f****** rope where they fall from the ceiling and still manage to kill everyone in the room. That would take a little more skill. That struck me more as luck than skill, though. They accidentally fell through while having an argument and started shooting while spinning rather than some planned scheme or careful effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmasher Posted June 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 That struck me more as luck than skill, though. They accidentally fell through while having an argument and started shooting while spinning rather than some planned scheme or careful effort. While some might think that being lucky takes away from a characters credibility, I think it suits the Saints much better, than making them some sort of professional hitmen from the get-go.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 They've got it in their blood though, with that terrifying murder machine of a father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 That would be the most extreme form of the Complication. I see attitudes towards violence and killing as existing on a continuum: Code vs Killing: The character will take steps to avoid killing, even when the situation would would warrant it. No Complication: The character will take a, "good shoot" if he has to, but tries to avoid the situation if possible. (Good cops and soldiers are here.) Casual Killer: The character is looking to take somebody out. They may have a list of targets they consider acceptable (minority groups, terrorists, criminals, etc), or restrict themselves to situations where they think they can get away with it. A bad cop might have this at (Common, Moderate). He's more interested in shooting criminals than arresting them, but he realizes that he has to make it look reasonable. I generally agree with your principle here, though I disagree with the specificities. Some of those qualifiers would reduce the commonality or strength of the complication significantly. The standard form of Casual Killer from Dark Champions 5th Edition is listed as Very Common, Strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 23, 2017 Report Share Posted June 23, 2017 While not explicit in the movie it seemed to be implied that the father and brothers had ties/training from the IRA and getting away from that cycle of ideological violence was why the brothers were in the USA. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 I'd say definitely their father, but I never got the impression the kids were trained or involved in anything except fist fights and generally being Southies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 I generally agree with your principle here, though I disagree with the specificities. Some of those qualifiers would reduce the commonality or strength of the complication significantly. The standard form of Casual Killer from Dark Champions 5th Edition is listed as Very Common, Strong. The default Code vs Killing is (Common, Total), but I've seen (and used) other versions. It's treated as an example. The default for Casual Killer is likewise an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted June 24, 2017 Report Share Posted June 24, 2017 I'd say definitely their father, but I never got the impression the kids were trained or involved in anything except fist fights and generally being Southies. I was going by their many Latin tattoos and their multiple language skills. HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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