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bpmasher

The Boondock Saints for 5e

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Just looking for some ideas on this topic. I'm planning on running small scenarios with miniatures not unlike the gunfights in the movie itself. I haven't yet gotten my FRED book (pretty rare) but I have Dark Champions and I have read about the mechanics of the game elsewhere so I have a pretty good idea how things work.

 

I need a little project to keep me occupied.

 

PS. Limitations. Dependence: Cigarettes (5 points), Dependence: Alcohol (10 points). Psychological Limitation: Code of Honor (25 points)

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I love that movie but haven't seen it in years.  The brothers definitely have some pretty good gun skills.  I wouldn't put them at the same competence as someone like John Wick (Keanu Reeves) but they sure seem to have some sort of military training with weapons.  I never bothered to build a gun bunny in 5e rules but you are welcome to use my 6e John Wick build (see 1st post) for combat capability inspiration.  Note that the names of many of the relevant Combat Maneuvers were changed from 5e to 6e so you will need to reference FRED and Dark Champions a lot (ex: Sweep and its ranged version were combined into Multiple Attack).

 

:)

HM

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Here's the initial version of the brothers. I just assumed they both have the same stats in game terms. They ended up being quite costly when looking at the character point numbers, but I tried to remain modest as in the movie got on by luck and surprise. They are much less competent than the typical vigilante in the Dark Champions book, but they can put up a fight against a roomful of clueless mafiosos. This is them before the first hit on the Russian mafia men, falling through the roof.

 

The Boondock Saints 5e
 
191 CP - 65 Disad. Points = 126 CP
 
 
CHARACTERISTICS: (cost)
 
STR 13 (3)
DEX 15 (15)
CON 13 (6)
BODY 15 (10)
INT 15 (5)
EGO 15 (10)
PRE 15 (5)
COM 15 (2)
 
PD 2 (3 rPD)
ED 2
SPD 4 (20)
REC 6
END 26
STUN 27
 
OCV 5
DCV 5
 
 
DISADVANTAGES:
 
Dependence: Cigarettes (10 points), -1 to skill rolls after one hour
Distinctive Feature: Tattoos (5 points)
Income Level: Poor (5 points)
Psych. Lim: Code of Honor: Only kills criminals (25 points)
Psych. Lim: Vigilante Mentality (20 points)
 
 
PERKS:
 
Anonymity (3 points)
Contact: David De La Rocco 11- (2 points)
Contact: The Bartender 11- (2 points)
 
TALENTS:
 
Combat Luck 3 Resistant PD/ED (6 points)
Resistance: Interrogation/Pain Tolerance +5 (5 points)
 
SKILLS:
 
+2 with Pistols (6 points)
 
AK: Boston (2 points)
Breakfall 12- (3 points)
Fast Draw 12- (3 points)
KS: TV Shows (1 point)
Language: French (2 points)
Language: Gaelic (2 points)
Language: German (2 points)
Language: Italian (2 points)
Language: Latin (2 points)
Language: Russian (2 points
Language: Spanish (2 points)
Oratory 12- (3 points)
Streetwise 12- (3 points)
Teamwork 12- (3 points)
WF: Small Arms (2 points)
 
POWERS/SUPER SKILLS:
 
Luck O' the Irish [Luck 5d6] (25 points)
Scenery Weapons [HA +3d6, OIF] (7 points)
Two-Gun Kid [Two-Weapon Fighting, Ranged + Rapid Attack, Ranged] (15 points)
 
 
EQUIPMENT (50 Equipment points = 10 points):
 
2x Beretta 92FS + Silencers [Cinematic] (15 Equipment points)
2x Concealment holster (2 points)
Taser (Non-Ranged) (21 Eq. Points)
Rope

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Not sure their INT should be that high, they seemed neither clever, nor observant and didn't demonstrate particularly great memory.

 

Yeah, I suppose. I just based it on them knowing several languages at fluent levels.

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Regarding their Complications:

I'm not a smoker, so I may be wrong... but I'd consider Cigarette Addiction to be a Psychological Complication more than a Dependence. It isn't so much that you need the Cigarette's to function, you are simply compelled to smoke regularly. These days I'd consider that a "Very Common, Moderate" complication since there are lots of times and places where smoking isn't acceptable, yet if need be most people can manage to make their EGO Rolls to resist temptation for a while.

 

Also, I'm note sure how "Vigilante Mentality" qualifies as a Complication. What do they want to do that it prevents them from doing? What does it force them to do that they wouldn't want to do? 

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Also, I'm note sure how "Vigilante Mentality" qualifies as a Complication. What do they want to do that it prevents them from doing? What does it force them to do that they wouldn't want to do? 

 

Well, I'm a smoker and I know that when sometimes you can't have one, that's all you're thinking about. Nicotine is classified as a drug. Matter of opinion I suppose, and easy to fix.

 

I got the vigilante mentality off the 5e Dark Champions book, where it mentions that it's a limited version of the casual killer complication. In the movie they talk about killing whoever they think is "bad". De La Rocco mentions that he's the guy they should listen to, and Connor says "I feel strangely comfortable with it" and the conversation ends as they decide to go after the whole Italian mafia in Boston, not considering the risks or repercussions.

 

It might be a needless complication, since the whole premise of the movie (and the game) is that they kill bad guys, but from an objective view, it makes them pretty messed up people to a point where their decisions are based on whim rather than analysis.

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I must be remembering a different movie because I recall a scene with a f****** rope where they fall from the ceiling and still manage to kill everyone in the room. That would take a little more skill. Also, why not Linguist?

 

HM

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Well, I'm a smoker and I know that when sometimes you can't have one, that's all you're thinking about. Nicotine is classified as a drug. Matter of opinion I suppose, and easy to fix.

Like I said, I'm not a smoker, so my opinion in that regard isn't exactly the most credible. While I recognize it's an addictive drug, addiction itself strikes me as more of a compulsion than a dependence.

 

I got the vigilante mentality off the 5e Dark Champions book, where it mentions that it's a limited version of the casual killer complication.

To be fair; I don't generally consider Casual Killer a legitimate Complication either. For a Psychological Complication to be worth points, I think it has to force you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. For example, Code Versus Killing​ is worth points because it prevents you from killing your enemies even when you know perfectly well that they deserve it, or that leaving them alive is a terrible idea... Yet you can't bring yourself to do it, even if they are known to be child-raping mass-murderers.

 

For Casual Killer to be worth points, it would have to be forcing you to make EGO Rolls not to kill people for cutting you off on the freeway, or not to kill your own minions when they bring you bad news that they had nothing to do with. Very few villains are presented as having that complication. 

 

One of my big complaints with the 5th edition write-ups was illegitimate Disadvantages (as they were called back then). You needed so many Disadvantage Points that it encouraged people to take Disadvantages they didn't really need or deserve. This carried over into 6th edition somewhat, because of lazy authoring, many villains still have two or three times the number of Complication Points they need, and in many cases Complications that they don't deserve or that don't really help define the character in a useful manner.

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Like I said, I'm not a smoker, so my opinion in that regard isn't exactly the most credible. While I recognize it's an addictive drug, addiction itself strikes me as more of a compulsion than a dependence.

 

To be fair; I don't generally consider Casual Killer a legitimate Complication either. For a Psychological Complication to be worth points, I think it has to force you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. For example, Code Versus Killing​ is worth points because it prevents you from killing your enemies even when you know perfectly well that they deserve it, or that leaving them alive is a terrible idea... Yet you can't bring yourself to do it, even if they are known to be child-raping mass-murderers.

 

For Casual Killer to be worth points, it would have to be forcing you to make EGO Rolls not to kill people for cutting you off on the freeway, or not to kill your own minions when they bring you bad news that they had nothing to do with. Very few villains are presented as having that complication. 

 

One of my big complaints with the 5th edition write-ups was illegitimate Disadvantages (as they were called back then). You needed so many Disadvantage Points that it encouraged people to take Disadvantages they didn't really need or deserve. This carried over into 6th edition somewhat, because of lazy authoring, many villains still have two or three times the number of Complication Points they need, and in many cases Complications that they don't deserve or that don't really help define the character in a useful manner.

 

I'll try and make the characters so that they have more legitimate complications in terms of gameplay. Just learning the system here.

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Also, I'm note sure how "Vigilante Mentality" qualifies as a Complication. What do they want to do that it prevents them from doing? What does it force them to do that they wouldn't want to do? 

 

The character doesn't go to the cops, even when it would be to his benefit. He might think they are corrupt or incompetent, or simply in the way.

 

To be fair; I don't generally consider Casual Killer a legitimate Complication either. For a Psychological Complication to be worth points, I think it has to force you to do something you don't want to do, or prevent you from doing something you do want to do. For example, Code Versus Killing​ is worth points because it prevents you from killing your enemies even when you know perfectly well that they deserve it, or that leaving them alive is a terrible idea... Yet you can't bring yourself to do it, even if they are known to be child-raping mass-murderers.

 

For Casual Killer to be worth points, it would have to be forcing you to make EGO Rolls not to kill people for cutting you off on the freeway, or not to kill your own minions when they bring you bad news that they had nothing to do with. Very few villains are presented as having that complication. 

 

That would be the most extreme form of the Complication. I see attitudes towards violence and killing as existing on a continuum:

  • Code vs Killing: The character will take steps to avoid killing, even when the situation would would warrant it.
  • No Complication: The character will take a, "good shoot" if he has to, but tries to avoid the situation if possible. (Good cops and soldiers are here.)
  • Casual Killer: The character is looking to take somebody out. They may have a list of targets they consider acceptable (minority groups, terrorists, criminals, etc), or restrict themselves to situations where they think they can get away with it. A bad cop might have this at (Common, Moderate). He's more interested in shooting criminals than arresting them, but he realizes that he has to make it look reasonable.

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I must be remembering a different movie because I recall a scene with a f****** rope where they fall from the ceiling and still manage to kill everyone in the room. That would take a little more skill.

 

 

That struck me more as luck than skill, though.  They accidentally fell through while having an argument and started shooting while spinning rather than some planned scheme or careful effort.

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That struck me more as luck than skill, though.  They accidentally fell through while having an argument and started shooting while spinning rather than some planned scheme or careful effort.

 

While some might think that being lucky takes away from a characters credibility, I think it suits the Saints much better, than making them some sort of professional hitmen from the get-go.. 

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That would be the most extreme form of the Complication. I see attitudes towards violence and killing as existing on a continuum:

  • Code vs Killing: The character will take steps to avoid killing, even when the situation would would warrant it.
  • No Complication: The character will take a, "good shoot" if he has to, but tries to avoid the situation if possible. (Good cops and soldiers are here.)
  • Casual Killer: The character is looking to take somebody out. They may have a list of targets they consider acceptable (minority groups, terrorists, criminals, etc), or restrict themselves to situations where they think they can get away with it. A bad cop might have this at (Common, Moderate). He's more interested in shooting criminals than arresting them, but he realizes that he has to make it look reasonable.

I generally agree with your principle here, though I disagree with the specificities. Some of those qualifiers would reduce the commonality or strength of the complication significantly. The standard form of Casual Killer​ from ​Dark Champions 5th Edition ​is listed as Very Common, Strong.

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While not explicit in the movie it seemed to be implied that the father and brothers had ties/training from the IRA and getting away from that cycle of ideological violence was why the brothers were in the USA.

 

HM

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I generally agree with your principle here, though I disagree with the specificities. Some of those qualifiers would reduce the commonality or strength of the complication significantly. The standard form of Casual Killer​ from ​Dark Champions 5th Edition ​is listed as Very Common, Strong.

 

The default Code vs Killing is (Common, Total), but I've seen (and used) other versions. It's treated as an example. The default for Casual Killer is likewise an example.

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I'd say definitely their father, but I never got the impression the kids were trained or involved in anything except fist fights and generally being Southies.

 

I was going by their many Latin tattoos and their multiple language skills.

 

HM

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