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'17-18 NBA Thread


Enforcer84

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In what universe is Houston a small market? It's the 6th largest metropolitan area in the US after New York,  Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas and Philadelphia.

And the smallest of the three Texas markets (San Antonio) has one of the most stable, well-managed, and well-coached franchises in the NBA. Some of the best players the recent NBA (David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli) were/are Spurs for their entire careers even though they could have gotten more money or notoriety in a larger market. Tim Duncan never did get a massive shoe contract or national endorsement deals like the ones Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal frequently collected, but was perfectly happy to stay in San Antonio, where he was loved, treated well, and almost always had a legitimate shot at a championship.

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The impression I get from what I hear is that this is the year the Sixers get good. Really good. Good enough to get into the Eastern Conference playoffs and maybe even have a deep run. The problem is they would have to be healthy, and that's been a problem.

 

The Cavaliers, meanwhile, appear to be imploding. When Kyrie wants out, you know things are bad in Cleveland.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I think it is the new negotiating strategy for players who really want out (like Carnelo Anthony and Kyrie Irving) to do whatever it takes to lower their market value in a trade. That way, when they do get a trade their new team would not have had to give up nearly as much to get him, and he'll be on a better team at his new home.

 

It then becomes a game of chicken for a team like the Knicks who have a star wanting out. Do they pull the trigger on a bad deal, or hold out, hope the player's value doesn't decline further, and risk having to take a worse deal later if they think they can raise the price by letting him play for them the first month or two of the season before making a move.

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It seems, that for once the owners have shot themselves in the foot. 

They won every collective bargaining agreement, making contracts shorter and then making it easier for the "owning team" to pay their stars. 

 

And then the Decision happened. LeBron played the villain and everyone (including me) felt bad for Cleveland's fans and even their crazy, moron owner.

 

The Decision scared the hell out of ownership who tweaked it again so they could better control their players.

 

Turns out...the players are now seemingly willing to take less money to get out of crazytown or chase the ring if that's what they want.

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For an owner, really controlling your players is almost impossible now unless you cater to them as well. If you have a generational star like Lebron James or Stephan Curry, is it up to you to keep them happy. It is not up to them to remain in your good graces, and if you mess with them they're going to leave. Notice the agony in Cleveland now that they have worn out their welcome with Lebron and Irving -- it used to be the other way around in the owner-player relationship. But not when the stakes are this high and the talent is that big. The Cavs are a mess, and it weill get even messier when James becomes a free agent because he's tired of ownership taking him for granted.

 

Lebron loves the city of Cleveland with all his heart. He always has, even during his sojourn in Florida, and he always will. But that doesn't mean he'd turn down the chance to play for better management and a better owner.

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Yeah, LeBron can say with impunity that he brought a championship to Cleveland (and an additional 3 shots at one) Dan Gilbert really can't.

 

Also, as bad as the Decision was for LeBron's public perception, this time it really will come down on Kyrie and/or Gilbert and the Trumpian Turmoil of his front office. 

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Yeah, but it was a totally different time, the owner let Red do his job. Gilbert basically told his GM that he wouldn't really be in charge so he left.  Then he low-balled prospective replacement Chauncey Billups and Gilbert is a big believer in the one-way loyalty of modern corporate America, where "for the good of the company" is the only good and, in the case of too many sports owners, is also translated as, "Make me seem a part of everything."

 

LeBron's decision to chase rings with Miami was...jarring. It was crushing to the fans of Cleveland and sent ripples of discontent to other fan-bases. Much like Free Agency ruined sports (to some) this move really scared a lot of people who are not professional athletes. 

 

But it also showcased that, in the east, He can lead almost anyone to the playoffs. Look how badly Cleveland floundered without him. 3 times they won the lottery. And in those three times they drafted 2 players and one colossal bust in a weak draft. With that cheap talent around, LeBron said, ok, I'll come home, it's not the train wreck it was when I left. (Mostly aging players with big contracts) He delivered his championship quest to Cleveland has been in the finals for what seven straight seasons? 

 

Player empowerment means a bit of destabilization, but the amount of money thrown at the superstars now has reached peak saturation it seems. They can look at it and say, "You know what? I don't think all that money is worth going to New York."

 

New York is a PRIME draw for players, but both franchises have been run poorly. Some free agents will shy away from that. Guys who want to be "The Man" will take their talents to a team where that can happen. Some guys will chase rings. Some cash, some Location, some will chase their legacy. 

 

Interesting times.

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I was gonna say Both?.  But, I still keep thinking of the Nets being in New Jersey.

 

But yeah, in the 50s/60s,  it was different.  In baseball, several managers were considered "company men" (Pirates' Danny Murtaugh, Cards' Red Schoendienst in particular) who spent nearly all their playing/managing/GMing careers with one club.  (well Schoendienst spent a couple end of playing career season with other teams, but still).  Coincidentally they and another similar manager Walt Alston of the Dodgers ended their careers during the last season before free agency (though Murtaugh died so he had a good excuse)

 

 

Interestingly, the Reds dynasty back then got demolished because they simply refused to deal with free agents.  (3 of their big 4 would leave, leaving only Bench) and the Yankees took as their opportunity to pick up the last needed pieces for returning to the promised land.

 

Personally free agency is to me needed to give players maneuverability (no telling how many players in sports got stuck in bad situations, bad teams, bad locker room environment, prick owners, stuck behind the local "god" on the depth chart) with no way out.   But, I do think there is some limit to the amount of greed the fans can deal with (without going into how much owners are making.  Hard to justify to them, going on strike if LeBron is raking in 30M  (even scrubs in sports, at least baseball and probably basketball make several hundred thousand, which the average fan probably spends half their lifetime making).  I can see both sides is all.

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COurse, I am a little behind times, evidently George Karl trashed Damon Lillard during the season.  Was there ever a player he didnt want to trash?  Dude, had player feuds everywhere he went.  Like the Billy Martin of the NBA or something.  (could make a title contender out of the players).

 

Admittedly he had his share of surly, irritable types, but after a certain number you have to say "Maybe it wasnt them, it was me"

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I finally watched the Kings vs Lakers game 7-2002 4th quarter on Youtube (wasnt into basketball in 2002, and hadnt really desired to look at it)

 

 

that was........ :fear: .......pretty bad.

 

 

Too bad, that KIngs team was really the better team (never know if they would have legit beat the Nets, but given the final score despite the extra help, they legit beat the Lakers).  And from clips I've seen of that Kings team, they played ultimate team basketball.

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  • 2 months later...

If a player in that game got hurt 5 minutes into the season, I would have mega-serious money on Derrick Rose.

 

 

On another note, while we left the game early, my dad and me once were at a minor league baseball game, where on the final play of the game (listening on radio in car by then) where on a groundball the batter collided with 1Bman in a way, where his ankle had a similar mishap,  supposedly he could look down towards his foot and see the bottom of his shoe.  He was out for a year plus, if I remember.  He did actually make the majors briefly.  But, as you can imagine his prospect status was fairly wrecked.

 

Note: I found an article about that baseball injury, I had forgotten, there was actually some brief worry that they might have to amputate, because the blood flow got cut off or something. 

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We all know that top-flight athletes endorse products. That's how they get rich. Shaquille O'Neal was famous for not spending a penny of his salary during his playing career and just living off his endorsements, and he was such a larger-than-life figure by any measure imaginable that he could do it. He is still a marketing juggernaut (his endorsement of back pain treatment products is ironic given that it was chronic back pain that ended his playing career).

 

Well, Portland point guard Damien Lillard is the subject of a new Powerade ad campaign (like many NBA players, he endorses the sports drink, intended to re-hydrate people after heavy exercise -- I use it during my occasional gym workouts) with billboards in the metro area with him looking out of the city with the caption "We're all just a Kid from Somewhere" -- reflect the humble beginnings of not just Dame but of a large proportion of NBA players.

 

It made me think, just a little bit, about what athletes do. Lillard, as has been pointed out, is one of the very best in the world at what he does, which is play the game of basketball. And because of that, people in Portland can sit down in front of a TV set or in a bar or restaurant and, for two precious hours, escape their troubles and frustrations and invest themselves in a game that, while it has troubles and frustrations of its own, almost always ends in embraces and the camaraderie of warriors respecting warriors.

 

Take the response to Hayward's injury. Lebron James and Kyrie Irving, who were by all account sworn enemies after the way Kyrie left Cleveland, embraced in shared concern after the game,.The fallen compatriot was a brother to both, teammate and foe alike. When Skip Bayless posted what he posted, the entire league rose up in defense of one of their own. Teammates have a special bond, of course, but those who have made it to the pinnacle that is holding one of the 450 roster spots in the NBA all have a bond as well.

 

There's just something special about basketball.

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