Equivalent 6e books

[Brian Stanfield]

So, out of curiosity, I'm wondering which 6e books are the equivalent of previous editions, but under different names. Part of what I like about 6e is it's exhaustive cumulation of all previous editions, but are some of those things left out?

 

For example, Hero System Martial Arts seems to be a compendium of both Ninja Hero (4e and 5e) and the Ultimate Martial Artist (5e). 

 

Is there a list, or can we compile one, of what the 6e books resuscitate from previous editions?

 

For another example, is there a 6e equivalent for the 4e book Champions 3-D? 

[Hyper-Man]

Champions Powers is the equivalent to the Until Super Powers Database.

The Advanced Players Guides (1&2) are the equivalent to the Ultimate books besides Martial Arts. 

The Book Of The Empress is probably the closest to the 4e Champions in 3-D but it really has a much different focus as the title character is sort of like the interdimensional equivalent to the time traveling Kang from Marvel Comics.

 

Unfortunately with the 2008/2009 economy the company decided to go into emergency mode and cancelled plans to publish several 6e updates of 5e books (like Vehicle). I don't know if a Dark Champions book was planned.

 

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can fill in the blanks.

 

HM

[Cantriped]

The Hero System Grimoire replaced the Fantasy Hero Grimoire I ​& II. Although I feel like it did a really poor job of it, the options entries for the 6th edition were bland, and unhelpful. I feel like I'd generally be better off just slapping Spell Procedures onto entries from Champions Powers.

 

​Fantasy Hero​ was updated with name, but not content, intact. Much of the 5th and 6th edition content was the same (such as the equipment lists, and the Alternative Magic Item Creation System), but select things were omitted in favor of "consolidating" them into other source books (such as Hero System Skill​, which I'm not sure had a 5th edition equivalent). The most notable differences between the two were:

• The works of literature they reference. The 6th edition references were decidedly more modern and trendy, the 5th edition references felt very classic, even when it was contemporary.
• The example magic systems and spells were very different, and generally more detailed in the 6th edition version.

 

Dark Champions​ (and its sister supplement, ​Dark Champions: The Animated Series​) were never updated. However, Steve Long did release a document containing updated Package Deals for Dark Champions.​ Which is likely as close as we're gonna get. Thankfully the rules to build weapons haven't changed that much (although you should still recalculate just to be sure) and Dark Champions contained relatively few full write-ups of Super-Skills or Equipment built as Powers.

 

Neither Pulp Hero nor Ninja Hero were updated to 6th as Genre Books, but as I own neither I can't comment on their compatibility with 6th edition.

 

Hero System Basic (and it could be argued ​Champions Complete and Fantasy Hero Complete​ to an extent) were derived from ​5th edition's Hero System Sidekick. Which was originally how I learned Hero, reading it through before tackling the copy of Hero System 5th Edition I'd been gifted.

 

Almost none of the Setting books were ever converted; but many can be used in 6th edition with minimal alteration to what Game Elements were presented.

 

As Hyper-Man mentions above, Hero Games lost steam before they finished the Core Line, so Hero System Vehicles (the 6th edition equivalent to ​Ultimate Vehicle​) will likely never see the light of day, which is truly a shame because it is oft referenced by sourcebooks and supplements that did get published...

 

Honestly, 5th edition was more or less the Golden Age of Hero System Products. 6th edition is arguably a superior ruleset (my dislike of the 6th edition rulebooks themselves aside) but it isn't nearly as comprehensive.

[Joe Walsh]

Honestly, 5th edition was more or less the Golden Age of Hero System Products. 6th edition is arguably a superior ruleset (my dislike of the 6th edition rulebooks themselves aside) but it isn't nearly as comprehensive.

 

Yup. We never did get an edition that carried over all the previous stuff. 3e uniquely had giant robots, 4e uniquely had horror, cyberpunk, and westerns (and lacked sci-fi as well as giant robots), and 5e had a plethora of genres (including teen supers and Mexican wrestling!) but lacked giant robots, horror, cyberpunk, and westerns from the previous editions. The abandoned 6e line never did get very much, and comes in just ahead of 2e in terms of the number of genres supported with books. Maybe the 6eR/"Complete" line will fix that, some day.

[Nolgroth]

Pulp Hero and Ninja Hero (all genre books for that matter) are more about the genre conventions than the rules they present. The rules are scattered examples and a few customized rules for the purpose of demonstrating that genre. What I want to know is if Star Hero for 6E updated any of the world building rules and theory or if, like Fantasy Hero, it was largely just an edited reprint.

[IndianaJoe3]

Pulp Hero and Ninja Hero (all genre books for that matter) are more about the genre conventions than the rules they present. The rules are scattered examples and a few customized rules for the purpose of demonstrating that genre. What I want to know is if Star Hero for 6E updated any of the world building rules and theory or if, like Fantasy Hero, it was largely just an edited reprint.

 

Yes, it did update the science.

[Brian Stanfield]

The Hero System Grimoire replaced the Fantasy Hero Grimoire I ​& II. Although I feel like it did a really poor job of it, the options entries for the 6th edition were bland, and unhelpful. I feel like I'd generally be better off just slapping Spell Procedures onto entries from Champions Powers.

 

​Fantasy Hero​ was updated with name, but not content, intact. Much of the 5th and 6th edition content was the same (such as the equipment lists, and the Alternative Magic Item Creation System), but select things were omitted in favor of "consolidating" them into other source books (such as Hero System Skill​, which I'm not sure had a 5th edition equivalent). The most notable differences between the two were:

 

I came to the same conclusion about the grimoires. They are helpful for new folks, but Champions Powers is organized a little better and easier to find ideas or templates for spells. Just add the same limitations as all other spells in your campaign and you're good to go, especially if you don't have a lot of rules regulating the use of spells.

 

The 6e Hero System Skills is identical in pagination to The Ultimate Skill in 5e. This was intentional on their part, but with some updates for the 6e rules. This is the clearest example of a re-publish for the new rule set. Some of the other things aren't as clear to me, and some just don't exist anymore. As Nolgroth says above, the genre books they aren't as rule-dependent, and so can be used for any edition with only a low amount of fiddling. 

[mrinku]

Yup. We never did get an edition that carried over all the previous stuff. 3e uniquely had giant robots, 4e uniquely had horror, cyberpunk, and westerns (and lacked sci-fi as well as giant robots), and 5e had a plethora of genres (including teen supers and Mexican wrestling!) but lacked giant robots, horror, cyberpunk, and westerns from the previous editions. The abandoned 6e line never did get very much, and comes in just ahead of 2e in terms of the number of genres supported with books. Maybe the 6eR/"Complete" line will fix that, some day.

 

3e also had sci-fi (Star Hero), though that came back in 5e. I think Mythic Greece, Vikings and Robin Hood are unique to 3e as well.

 

The spy genre also seemed to peter out after 3e. Espionage! was the only 2e genre book, with Danger International in 3e (man, that was a GOOD book). Dark Champions appears to have filled in that role, but surely there is room for a spyfi genre book of its own?

[Hyper-Man]

There was a release schedule that included a new Danger International for next year but the schedule was later removed. Hopefully the book will still get produced.

 

HM

[Joe Walsh]

3e also had sci-fi (Star Hero), though that came back in 5e. I think Mythic Greece, Vikings and Robin Hood are unique to 3e as well.

 

The spy genre also seemed to peter out after 3e. Espionage! was the only 2e genre book, with Danger International in 3e (man, that was a GOOD book). Dark Champions appears to have filled in that role, but surely there is room for a spyfi genre book of its own?

 

Yup, lots of good stuff was lost along the way. I guess the general gaming public didn't agree with us that it was good (or no one interested in writing updated versions was available).

[Lord Liaden]

The Champions Villains trilogy contains 6E versions of almost all the villains collected in Conquerors, Killers, And Crooks; Evil Unleashed; Villains, Vandals, And Vermin; Arcane Adversaries; Champions Universe: News Of The World; and Champions Of The North. A few from The Mystic World, Book Of The Destroyer, Book Of The Machine, and Champions Worldwide also made it into the trilogy. The non-villain material from those books has not been updated The trilogy also includes a moderate number of villains new for 6E.

 

Champions Universe 6E has all the background info from 5E, with updates and expansions based on events in official CU continuity through 2009; as well as incorporating some of the revisions and events from the Champions Online MMORPG. A few of the characters included in the 5E book haven't been updated to 6E yet.