Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Clips and Charges and The Limitation That Refused to Lighten Up

Hero Designer clips charges the wolf at your door

  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Territan

Territan

    Incompetent Normal

  • HERO Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 01:17 PM

Here's what's happening to me in HD:

 

I want to create a gun for the new administrator of the PCs' team. And she'd probably have several. So I'm setting them up in the Multipower, and adding the Common Modifier Charges.

 

I select 8 Charges, which is a -1/2 Limitation. Then I check Clips, because she'd have extra ammo. 2 Clips is a +1/4 mod to the Limitation, so it moves up to -1/4.

 

I push it up farther, to 4 Clips, which brings the total Limitation up to 0.

 

She'd be serious about this stuff; she doesn't have powers herself, and knows she may have to fight the team sooner or later. So I consider 6 or 8 clips?

 

When I step the Clips adder up, it goes not to 8 but 16, for a +3/4 Adder, making the total value of the Limitation ...0.

 

At first, I didn't understand the step from 2 to 8, but after consulting the Book (6E1 369), I found where pushing into Advantage territory gives you 4x the clips at each new step. However, what HD is not doing is showing it as an Advantage. The total Limitation Value, when it becomes an Advantage, never rises above -0.

 

32 Charges should be +1/4, but instead shows as 0.

 

250 Charges should be +1, but instead shows as 0.

 

2000 Charges should be +1 3/4, but instead shows as 0.

 

I can work around this with Custom Advantage, but someone not checking the math might get filled with a false sense of security. So I thought you ought to know.

 


Dagnabbit, I'm in danger of filling another bookcase with games.

#2 Simon

Simon

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,495 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 01:19 PM

That is correct and in accordance with the rules of the system.

I am but mad north by northwest.  When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.


#3 Hyper-Man

Hyper-Man

    Caped Madman!

  • HERO Member
  • 14,821 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 01:24 PM

Try applying the modifier directly to the power instead of the framework. The rules for that combo can be weird.

HM

#4 Simon

Simon

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,495 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 01:26 PM

It still won't take on a positive value...Nor should it.

How many times could you use the power without the Charges Modifier? How are you gaining any advantage with a huge number of Charges? (You're not)

I am but mad north by northwest.  When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.


#5 Tom Cowan

Tom Cowan

    Standard Normal

  • HERO Member
  • 170 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 02:05 PM

well 0 END for Charges



#6 Hyper-Man

Hyper-Man

    Caped Madman!

  • HERO Member
  • 14,821 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

Sorry Simon, I was misreading the OP and misremembering the rule.  Rereading all the rules from 6e1 page 367-369 provides all the details.

 

HM



#7 Territan

Territan

    Incompetent Normal

  • HERO Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 02:30 PM

Erratum from my previous post: The 2000 charge example should be +1, not +1 3/4. The table on 6E1 368 shows that value of Charges as an Advantage capping at +1, before taking anything like Continuing or Recoverable Charges.


Dagnabbit, I'm in danger of filling another bookcase with games.

#8 Simon

Simon

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,495 posts

Posted 01 July 2017 - 03:16 PM

And if you apply Charges to a Power that costs END, it will max out at +1 - again, as dictated in the rules

I am but mad north by northwest.  When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.


#9 Territan

Territan

    Incompetent Normal

  • HERO Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts

Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:00 AM

And if you apply Charges to a Power that costs END, it will max out at +1 - again, as dictated in the rules

 

Meanwhile, if you apply Charges as a Common Modifier in a Multipower in Hero Designer (meaning it's applied to all the powers inside), it will max out at -0.

 

Cost Powers

75     Multipower, 60-point reserve, all slots 4 clips of 16 Charges (+1/4) (75 Active Points) - END=
6f      1)  Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points) - END=0
6f      2)  Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points) - END=0
6f      3)  Killing Attack - Ranged 3d6, Area Of Effect (8m Radius Explosion; +1/4) (56 Active Points) - END=0
75     Blast 12d6 (75 Active Points); 4 clips of 16 Charges (+1/4) - END=[16]

 

EDIT: Yeah, the Multipower is doing something to the calculation, because while I was filling in a Blast inside the Multipower, the cost of the Multipower increased when the Charges changed to a +1/4. Meanwhile, the Blast inside the Multipower to which I applied the same Charges is showing a -0 modifier and a cost of 6f. Something is very wrong here.

 

EDIT: Clipping from a text export illustrating the problem. Shouldn't the slots of the Multipower with the Charges on all slots have higher active point costs?


Edited by Territan, 03 July 2017 - 05:26 AM.

Dagnabbit, I'm in danger of filling another bookcase with games.

#10 Simon

Simon

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 12,495 posts

Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:35 AM

ONCE AGAIN: HD is doing things correctly.


I am but mad north by northwest.  When the wind is southerly, I know a hawk from a handsaw.


#11 Hyper-Man

Hyper-Man

    Caped Madman!

  • HERO Member
  • 14,821 posts

Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:31 AM

Territan, I I strongly recommend rereading the pages I mentioned above.

You should also look up the rules for applying Advantages directly to frameworks.

IF you still have questions about the rules you may want to post a question to Steve Long in the rules forum.

:)
HM





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Hero Designer, clips, charges, the wolf at your door