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Feedback on a House Rule idea - Luck


dsatow

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There is a point that I'm not sure has been covered that Luck and Unluck (NEVER overlook Unluck in this discussion!) also help define the general fortune of a character, aside from the rolls. This is part of the overall character's background and conception; If Panther (3d6 Luck) goes to the casino, he's probably walking away with some money in pocket. If Mechno Marauder (3d6 Unluck) does the same, he may find his Mechno Suit in hock to the Mob. No rolls need be made.

 

Wealth is sometimes matched with this - Spiderman is the classic Unluck hero, and he struggles to make ends meet.

 

Indiana Jones is the classic character with both Luck and Unluck - things often derail when he's ahead, but he catches the most unlikely breaks when things are genuinely dire. Were rolls made? Possibly, but in game terms the character was built so that the player expected that kind of roller coaster. Whether the dice rolled it, or if the GM set it up that way from the start because of the Luck and Unluck doesn't matter.

 

So... I tend to see Luck and Unluck more along the lines of Hunteds and Allies, or other opposed background elements. Things you build into your character conception that the GM controls. I'm not sure moving Luck from a Talent to a Power was a good idea, though.

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Nah, it's Mister Flexible that swings both ways.

 

Dunno about Luck for old Spidey. He pretty much always gets himself out of a hopeless situation through skill, grit and smarts.

 

What happens with Peter Parker is that he has normal fortunate things happen, or things that are actually quite likely, like girls noticing him (he's clever and witty and not bad looking after he loses the glasses) BUT then he catches a bad break (spots a mugging on the way to the date and ruins his clothes). Classic Unluck.

 

Of course with his powers he can survive quite a lot of punishment without needing a lucky break. Indy needs to land in a haybale to break his 4 storey fall, while Spiderman can take the hit, even if it knocks him out.

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I dunno, I think Spidey has some luck.  Gets bit by radioactive spider and instead of dying of cancer or poisoning, he get superpowers.  Getting Mary Jane as a girlfriend/fiance/wife, extremely lucky.  I just think his unluck way out shines his luck.

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The house rules does not prevent any of that.  In fact, it makes it more probable that it will happen for the benefit of the character.

But none of those things are dice rolls.  Luck (RAW) can have an effect on in-game events when no dice rolls are involved.

 

As Doc Democracy said, luck "belongs, in most builds, in a decent VPP with lucky as the binding special effect".  Such a VPP however, is cumbersome and potentially full of "holes" - possibilities for luck that the player/GM didn't think of when creating the power or the character.  The Luck power as written, *is* essentially that VPP, just handwaved, which IMO, is perfectly appropriate for a luck-based power.  IOW, if you want the equivalent luck of 3d6 Luck, just spend the 15 points and write "3d6 Luck" and you're done.  Much easier than constructing a VVP on a total of 15 points that has all the same potential effects.

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I dunno, I think Spidey has some luck.  Gets bit by radioactive spider and instead of dying of cancer or poisoning, he get superpowers.  Getting Mary Jane as a girlfriend/fiance/wife, extremely lucky.  I just think his unluck way out shines his luck.

 

Origin stuff doesn't matter. By that measure Bruce Banner has more Luck than anyone  :)

 

As far as MJ goes... go back and read the earlier comics on that. His love life is a long string of tragedy, frustration and breakups. Yeah, he eventually ends up with MJ and gets married, but they keep messing with even that. And the whole Black Cat sequence... he finally finds a girl he likes who he can hero with - and she can't deal with Peter Parker.

 

This gets back to what I was saying about the non-rolling aspect of Luck/Unluck. By building an Unlucky character the player is basically giving the GM permission (actually asking them, really) to set them up for a major fall on a regular basis.

 

Keep in mind he does have actual powers, contacts and skills that help get his stories back on track without needing blind luck. Spiderman is extremely capable in his normal environment. The Spider Sense will go off in the presence of trouble or a bad guy, he'll research stuff at the Bugle (more recently, do it on the Internet, but newspaper archives go back further and often aren't entirely digitised), or talk to one of his journalist contacts. Peter is a top gadgeteer, too, limited only by his youth and poverty.

 

And... Unluck doesn't kick in when you're under the hammer. Peter's been soundly beaten by some new bad guy, so he goes back to the lab and works on some trick to deal with them (the original Electro story is a prime example). That usually goes smoothly, simply because he's already at a low point.

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Origin stuff doesn't matter. By that measure Bruce Banner has more Luck than anyone  :)

 

Actually, if I was Banner, in the beginning, I would think he would rather have the cancer.

 

Peter Parker gets a photographer job at the Bugle when he needed money because there was a reward for Vulture pictures.  When the workplace starts to get too much, Robbie Robertson becomes editor in chief.

 

The thing is, our disagreement stresses the fact that luck is subjective.  Especially when dealing with a fictional work.  One person's lucky experience is another's bad luck.  As an example, in real life, there was a person I knew who always stated his luck was bad.  His car broke down a lot.  He couldn't hold a job.  He had frequent health issues.  But was it his luck or the facts that he was always late to work, never changed or put oil in his car, and hardly ate anything healthy and never exercised?

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But none of those things are dice rolls.  Luck (RAW) can have an effect on in-game events when no dice rolls are involved.

 

As Doc Democracy said, luck "belongs, in most builds, in a decent VPP with lucky as the binding special effect".  Such a VPP however, is cumbersome and potentially full of "holes" - possibilities for luck that the player/GM didn't think of when creating the power or the character.  The Luck power as written, *is* essentially that VPP, just handwaved, which IMO, is perfectly appropriate for a luck-based power.  IOW, if you want the equivalent luck of 3d6 Luck, just spend the 15 points and write "3d6 Luck" and you're done.  Much easier than constructing a VVP on a total of 15 points that has all the same potential effects.

 

Nothing is preventing those role playing effects of luck in the rules.  The house rule is a suggestion on how to handle luck in combat.  To reiterate, luck is very subjective per GM.  Your method is how you run luck.  It is not RAW, but a house rule.  The rule I have suggested is a house rule because I do not like the RAW.  I created this thread to get feedback on the idea, because a single point of view does not offer the best guarantee of success when crafting a rule or law.

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Actually, if I was Banner, in the beginning, I would think he would rather have the cancer.

 

Peter Parker gets a photographer job at the Bugle when he needed money because there was a reward for Vulture pictures.  When the workplace starts to get too much, Robbie Robertson becomes editor in chief.

 

The thing is, our disagreement stresses the fact that luck is subjective.  Especially when dealing with a fictional work.  One person's lucky experience is another's bad luck.  As an example, in real life, there was a person I knew who always stated his luck was bad.  His car broke down a lot.  He couldn't hold a job.  He had frequent health issues.  But was it his luck or the facts that he was always late to work, never changed or put oil in his car, and hardly ate anything healthy and never exercised?

 

Oh, our discussion is totally subjective. We agree that Peter Parker has more bad luck than good - I just don't think his "good luck" is anything more than the normal opportunities that a talented, personable chap has happen anyway. Without the spider bite his life path was fairly clear - get good grades (ability) find a job to help pay for college (hard work and determination), meet a nice girl (he's a smart, polite, hard working kid and parents practically line up to set him on dates with their daughters - that's how he meets MJ in the first place). But his bad luck definitely gets him screwed over to drive the narrative along and is a noteworthy character trait.

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Nothing is preventing those role playing effects of luck in the rules.  The house rule is a suggestion on how to handle luck in combat.  To reiterate, luck is very subjective per GM.  Your method is how you run luck.  It is not RAW, but a house rule.  The rule I have suggested is a house rule because I do not like the RAW.  I created this thread to get feedback on the idea, because a single point of view does not offer the best guarantee of success when crafting a rule or law.

 

Exactly. And I hope we've been of service :)

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So the luck plays out in the game was very interesting.  The players liked the concept.  

 

The pluses:

  • Changed a badly rolled damage roll to become a little above average.
  • Allowed several skill rolls to be made when it wouldn't otherwise.
  • Didn't over power the game, but let the character shine a little.
  • Very effective at 3d6 rolls like to hit, block, dive for cover, perception, or skill rolls.

The minuses:

  • Might be a problem with to hit rolls.
  • After one combat, ran through the dice pool rather quickly.  The ability is best used for 3d6 rolls.  Normal damage rolls eat up too much of the abilities' dice.
  • That being said, the 3d6 rolls had issues where the luck didn't activate because the result was higher or equal than the previous roll.  This was infrequent but there.

 

Some conclusions:

  • While it wasn't tested, on killing attacks it probably shouldn't be used on stun mods.  It should probably only be used on whole d6s only.
  • On a high number of luck dice, its quite tempting to use all the dice to maximize an attack, but since it should only be restored on a per session/arc, this restriction help reign in the power from being too abusive.  Still it should be noted with what would be in the book as a GM warning.
  • It should not be used in frameworks.
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  • That being said, the 3d6 rolls had issues where the luck didn't activate because the result was higher or equal than the previous roll.  This was infrequent but there.

Put another way: the player paid for the character to be lucky ... and, while infrequent, at times the character didn't receive what was bought/paid for.

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