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Free hero lite?


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#1 Tech priest support

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 12:26 AM

Have you ever done a free "hero lite" PDF like "gurps lite"? It might help you attract new users. I'd like a dollar for every time I heard a gurps player say "My first gurps experience was gurps lite."

As for people claiming you'd be "ripping off gurps" i'd say gurps moved a bit closer to the hero system in it's 4th edition.
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be very uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering." The Doctor.

#2 Brian Stanfield

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:13 PM

This is an ongoing forum discussion, and a lot of different ideas have been presented. Several people are taking on different projects along these lines, but there is no "official" HERO System document.

 

Take a look at this free download that Xotl worked on this spring. http://www.herogames...sy-hero-primer/



#3 Tech priest support

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 01:02 AM

I'm not too big on Hero system games but I would hate to see the company die. If a stripped down lite system version can be made that will help sales I'd hope it could be done and released.
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be very uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering." The Doctor.

#4 Chris Goodwin

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 05:14 PM

I've asked, and was told no way, not ever would that be happening.


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#5 Tech priest support

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:12 PM

Oh well, their choice.
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be very uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering." The Doctor.

#6 Brian Stanfield

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 08:48 PM

I've asked, and was told no way, not ever would that be happening.


So what is the rationale behind flat-out denial?

#7 Nolgroth

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 02:06 AM

I, personally, have zero knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes. As a fanboy, I have theories. In the end, it doesn't matter. The business model that Hero Games pursued was not one that sustained them. There are a lot of factors that probably played into that. I've heard that the recession of '08 had a pretty significant impact. I strongly suspect that the Hero Rules themselves are the only real asset that Hero Games can use if it ever tries to climb back into the market once we get a decent economy going and the gaming world turns its attention, once more, to Hero. If it gives those away freely, then it risks not having any marketable asset to leverage if those stars align again.

 

Personally, I really hope that someday, if Hero cannot make a commercial comeback, then the owners of the IP do release it into the ether as a free (as in cost) product while still retaining the rights to it. I don't want to see become "open" or covered under some license like Apache or Creative Commons. That way, the legacy of Hero can live on instead of fading into some obscure hole in the memories of a few, aging grognards. Ain't that day just yet it seems.


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#8 Chris Goodwin

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 05:22 PM

So what is the rationale behind flat-out denial?

 

Partly that it would never happen without Powers.  Partly that to do it with Powers would make it too large and unwieldy to release for free.  And partly what Nolgroth said:

 

I strongly suspect that the Hero Rules themselves are the only real asset that Hero Games can use if it ever tries to climb back into the market once we get a decent economy going and the gaming world turns its attention, once more, to Hero. If it gives those away freely, then it risks not having any marketable asset to leverage if those stars align again.

 

None of those were qualified or given wiggle room; they were all definitively no, not going to happen and here's why.  


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Chris Goodwin
The Big Thread of Helpful HowtosThe Unofficial HERO System Forum | HERO System Low Heroic Protocols | Old School ChampionsHow to Play HERO System | Robot Warriors to HERO System Current Editions
 
There are two paths your character can take into the game: the path of the game guidelines document, or the path of the Character Approver 9000. Choose your path wisely.


#9 mrinku

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 05:00 PM

I doubt HERO sales have that much to do with the economy. The market for PnP RPGs is STILL primarily white male nerds, and those are doing fine. Even the white female nerds are doing okay.  

 

The key issue is most likely one of marketing. Champions Complete is an excellent product, let down a little by its interior art. But if a friend hadn't given me his copy I'd probably never have heard of it.

 

I'm reminded of the John Carter movie. It was a pretty good movie and a great adaptation of the books, but it got practically no marketing, no merch and almost sank without a trace.


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#10 Greywind

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:34 PM

Is Hero Lite a political prisoner that needs to be freed?


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#11 Tech priest support

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 05:52 PM

Look no need for snark. ICM a grognard gamer, I got started in the 80's. Yeah a lot of horrible the GS came out of the 80's. Disco, hairbands, crack, AIDS, yuppies, Reagan, ad infinitum.

But the 80's was also the golden age of gaming. We had a lot of game companies that were good but no longer with us. We had microgames, we had boxed sets of games with dice and character sheets, we had a lot of game adaptations of books, we had real papergame magazines.

A lot of the things gaming had in the 80's are gone. No more boxed sets, no more microgames in small packages with maps and rule books, no more paper magazines, lawyers, smelling easy money, have invaded the game world and made getting rights to anything an expensive and hellish process. A lot if good game comlanies are either gone or reduced to shadows of themselves. A lot of the people in gaming from the 80's are gone too. :(

Now I remember champions from the 80's. Game stores always had it back them. Hero games was around in the golden age of gaming and now as I understand it the company and hero line are on life support. I don't want it to die even if I'm not big on it let we'. If it weren't for gurps I might have gotten more into it, but i'd like to see the company keep going g.

Maybe a HERO version of gurps lite or savage worlds explorer edition could help it have a resurgence. I'd like that. That's my motivation. Period.
"You know, the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views. Which can be very uncomfortable if you're one of the facts that needs altering." The Doctor.

#12 mrinku

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Posted 21 August 2017 - 12:28 AM

Well, in general terms, roleplaying and co-op storytelling is still going quite strong. I think we ARE staring to see a resurgence of old school PnP - video games knocked it around for a while, but now social media and print on demand (or don't bother printing) are bringing it back.

 

MMORPGs held sway for a while, but ultimately crumbled under their own weight of development and running costs and the harsh market of hardware upgrade cycles. Though they'll likely be back at some point once AI shrinks the cost of production a bit more.

 

But I saw my kids grow up to experience creative roleplay through Minecraft even when my old games weren't attractive (though latterly the boy has come around in a big way. Heh heh :) ) At heart, it's people telling stories to each other and THAT is the most human thing of all.


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#13 Beast

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 02:06 PM

about the closest I could see for a free version of Hero system would be a pdf of Wildstrike
which only had pre built characters for pit fighting


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#14 Beast

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 02:14 PM

6th ed Basic is 15$ and 5th ed Sidekick is 7$ in pdf

in either case both are cheap fully playable intro systems for Hero


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Beast

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Knotworking for a better tomorrow)

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Known superpower :Bodice Lacing

 

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#15 Spence

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Posted 04 September 2017 - 03:53 PM

When I see these threads, either a quick start or what they will call a shortened rule set, they ask one thing and then immediately change the subject to a related but completely different kind of thought. 

 

Every RPG has three distinctly different parts listed here in no particular order.

 

Part 1. Character generation.  Building a character. 

Part 2. World and adventure building.

Part 3. Actually playing the game.  Rules to do things in game and arbitrate outcomes.

 

Almost all of the attempts to bring this subject up attempt to immediately push another version of Character Generation instead of anything related to actually playing the game. 

 

A introduction set of rules for Hero, a Quick-play Ruleset, should not have anything that even remotely resembles building anything. 

 

A Fantasy Hero Quickstart should have X number of pregenerated PC's, a complete but short adventure and an abbreviated ruleset that covers the included PCs and adversary abilities.

 

A Champions Quickstart should have X number of pregenerated Superhero PC's, a complete but short adventure and an abbreviated ruleset that covers the included PCs and adversary abilities.

 

And so on. 

 

For a Supers game, minimize options.  No complex builds, simple single purpose abilities.  A "I have never seen a super game let alone played one" newbie should be able to run the character easily based on just the character sheet.  

 

Why yes "Bob the Gamer", I understand that you have been playing Hero since the year 1617 and you self esteem rests on your ability to impress people with your Hero builds.  But you are not the target of the product, you already own every possible product ever made.   A Quickstart is aimed at people that have never seen Hero before.    If the get a chance to PLAY the game, they may decide to buy the complete rules and continue playing. Maybe they will even move past playing and start building characters and things.

 

:angel:

 

 


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To Assume, To make an A$$ out of U and Me.

 

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#16 bigdamnhero

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:42 PM

A introduction set of rules for Hero, a Quick-play Ruleset, should not have anything that even remotely resembles building anything. 

 

A Fantasy Hero Quickstart should have X number of pregenerated PC's, a complete but short adventure and an abbreviated ruleset that covers the included PCs and adversary abilities.

 

A Champions Quickstart should have X number of pregenerated Superhero PC's, a complete but short adventure and an abbreviated ruleset that covers the included PCs and adversary abilities.

 

And so on.

I couldn't agree more. Show them how easy & fun the game is to play. Plus that way you haven't given away the core of the system for free, which is (I would argue) character creation

 

For a Supers game, minimize options.  No complex builds, simple single purpose abilities.  A "I have never seen a super game let alone played one" newbie should be able to run the character easily based on just the character sheet. 

Yes. Tho I would add you don't want to over-simplify things, because you want to show people what Hero is capable of. The trick I think is to limit yourself to one "option" per character. So maybe one PC has martial arts; another has a Multipower for their energy blast; another has a "spell list" or a "utility belt" built as a VPP (all pre-built of course); the brick has Damage Reduction, etc. None of those are terribly complicated as long as each player only has to learn one of them; tho the GM has to work a little harder of course. One of the major strengths of Hero is the versatility in character creation, so I think you want to show off a little variety to give the idea of what you can do in Hero that you can't do in other systems.


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#17 Beast

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:22 PM

for supers it is WildStrike
for Fantasy just prebuild some characters with more killing attacks vs normal attacks
and do as a pdf

I couldn't agree more. Show them how easy & fun the game is to play. Plus that way you haven't given away the core of the system for free, which is (I would argue) character creation

 

Yes. Tho I would add you don't want to over-simplify things, because you want to show people what Hero is capable of. The trick I think is to limit yourself to one "option" per character. So maybe one PC has martial arts; another has a Multipower for their energy blast; another has a "spell list" or a "utility belt" built as a VPP (all pre-built of course); the brick has Damage Reduction, etc. None of those are terribly complicated as long as each player only has to learn one of them; tho the GM has to work a little harder of course. One of the major strengths of Hero is the versatility in character creation, so I think you want to show off a little variety to give the idea of what you can do in Hero that you can't do in other systems.


Beast

Yeoman Robert"Beast" Mitchell Yeoman of the Guard RPFS

Vice Admiral Sir John Perrot Royal Order of the Tudor Rose NCRF

Knotworking for a better tomorrow)

Brutal Harmony (have no idea where that tenor came from I sing bass)

Known superpower :Bodice Lacing

 

currently playing

Ghost Cat
Precision
Wraith


#18 Ninja-Bear

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 06:22 AM

Well, in general terms, roleplaying and co-op storytelling is still going quite strong. I think we ARE staring to see a resurgence of old school PnP - video games knocked it around for a while, but now social media and print on demand (or don't bother printing) are bringing it back.

MMORPGs held sway for a while, but ultimately crumbled under their own weight of development and running costs and the harsh market of hardware upgrade cycles. Though they'll likely be back at some point once AI shrinks the cost of production a bit more.

But I saw my kids grow up to experience creative roleplay through Minecraft even when my old games weren't attractive (though latterly the boy has come around in a big way. Heh heh :) ) At heart, it's people telling stories to each other and THAT is the most human thing of all.


So all white nerdy men are rich? It took me along time to justify paying $50 for Hero 5th. Now I can afford more gaming stuff but when money is tight, gaming goes to the side.
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The main object of the game is for the players and the GM to have fun. Champions 3rd ed. Pg 130

#19 Nolgroth

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:59 PM

6th ed Basic is 15$ and 5th ed Sidekick is 7$ in pdf

in either case both are cheap fully playable intro systems for Hero

 

And Fantasy Hero Complete PDF is $10. At this point, both Sidekick and 6th Ed Basic could comfortable go to the ~$5 range. Personally at $10 for a complete (if trimmed for brevity) rules set, I would never recommend either Sidekick or 6EB.


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#20 Spence

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 12:19 PM

 Somehow I posted before I was actually ready and apparently there is not a delete function.

 

I also cannot spell....


To Assume, To make an A$$ out of U and Me.

 

No I didn't deliberately make a moronic statement designed to start a flame war. I'm just BBS Challenged.

 

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