Curing Deseases and Poison How to:

[indy523]

OK so if I want my character to be immune to Deseases or Poisons it is 5 points, 10 for both.

 

What if I want to cure said desease or poison.

 

I can buy a Vaccine Regimen or Antidote as Usable on Others, without their permission, no control after administering.  Figuring out all the permutations is not important to the topic so lets make it +1A.  Per the rules however this technically describes preventing the desease or poison in advance granting immunity.  Does this 20 point power also work if someone is ill and close to death?

 

Is some combination of the immunity and the healing power needed in this circumstance?  Not sure?

[Lucius]

 

Cure (but not Heal) Disease: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Life Support (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only confers immunity for diseases the target happens to be suffering at the time of casting (-1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Incantations ("You're not sick anymore" ; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Heal (but not Cure) Disease: (Total: 45 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Healing whatever ails you 1d6+1, Can Heal Limbs, Characteristics Powers or Abilities lost to disease (+1/2), Expanded Effect (x3 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1) (45 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (9-12 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Hour, -1 1/2), Extra Time (1 Minute, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations ("You'll feel better tomorrow" ; -1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary cures the ham and heels the bread

[DasBroot]

And when in doubt there's always Transform: Sick Target into Healthy Target (end condition getting sick again).

 

Or RKA, AoE, Indirect (full), limited target: Cancer Cells (or disease of choice) only (though that won't reverse the characteristic loss - which is realistic, to be honest - kill the disease, hope the body can naturally heal itself once it's gone).

[Christopher R Taylor]

In my opinion, there should be an adder for Heal that is "cure effect" which allows the healer to cure any effect that life support can protect from.  In other words, if a power is built "life support vs poison negates" for example, the "cure effect" adder would eliminate it.  

 

So a power like this: Drain 1d6 Body; Damage Over Time 3 increments once every turn, defenses apply only once, cannot stack, AVAD: Life Support vs any poison negates

 

would be cured by the "cure effect" adder for Heal.

 

This adder shouldn't cost too terribly much, 5 points or at most 10.  But that would better simulate effects in genre source material and makes better sense to me for at least some effects than a huge dispel or transformation.  It makes Heal act more like a basic remedy power which can be tailored in different ways, and ties in better with life support's low cost for these kind of effects.

[Lee]

This adder shouldn't cost too terribly much, 5 points or at most 10.  

 

How about making the adder similar to the point cost of the equivalent LS: Immunity?

 

Such as:

 

+1 for Any Single Common Poison/Disease

+2 for a Group of (Related) Common Poisons/Diseases

+3 for Any Single Uncommon Common Poison/ Disease

+4 for a Group of (Related) Uncommon Poisons/Diseases

+5 for Cure All Poisons

+5 for Cure All Diseases

 

Lee

[mrinku]

Aside from an absolute power you could prevent deterioration and death with a REC Aid, a bonus to the skill of the treating physician, or just by GM fiat requiring that the right antibiotics/rare herbs/holy relic were obtained (which could be an adventure seed).

 

But I do like the adder idea on Heal.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Incidentally, I still say this only gives a temporary reprieve, granting protection from the effect you're currently suffering only as long as it lasts.

 

Cure (but not Heal) Disease: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Life Support (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only confers immunity for diseases the target happens to be suffering at the time of casting (-1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Incantations ("You're not sick anymore" ; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

If the protection outlasts the disease, then it doesn't start up again, but Life Support doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes the person not suffer from its presence.

 

As for the Heal adder idea, I think 10 points is good for it as a flat adder cost, for simplicity's sake.  Anything less and its too cheap an effect (½d6 heal plus 5 point adder to negate disease and poison effects, even if only some of them, its just cheap).  And I think it should work on any given effect, but only one at a time.

[Lucius]

Cure (but not Heal) Disease: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Life Support (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only confers immunity for diseases the target happens to be suffering at the time of casting (-1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Incantations ("You're not sick anymore" ; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Incidentally, I still say this only gives a temporary reprieve, granting protection from the effect you're currently suffering only as long as it lasts

 

If the protection outlasts the disease, then it doesn't start up again, but Life Support doesn't make the problem go away, it just makes the person not suffer from its presence..

That's exactly why it's called Cure (but not Heal) Disease. To Heal Disease you need

 

Heal (but not Cure) Disease: (Total: 45 Active Cost, 10 Real Cost) Healing whatever ails you 1d6+1, Can Heal Limbs, Characteristics Powers or Abilities lost to disease (+1/2), Expanded Effect (x3 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1) (45 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (9-12 damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Hour, -1 1/2), Extra Time (1 Minute, Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -1), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations ("You'll feel better tomorrow" ; -1/4) (Real Cost: 10)

Which undoes disease damage, but doesn't stop the disease from doing more damage.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary cures the ham and heels the bread

[Christopher R Taylor]

No what I mean is this:

 

1) Bob has poison in his body, he's dying

2) Bob gets life support from poison; he still has the poison in his body, but isn't hurt by it any longer

3) Bob loses life support, still has poison, and now starts taking damage from it again

 

The life support doesn't negate the effect, it just makes you not suffer from it temporarily.

[DasBroot]

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think I like the 'kill it with fire' approach from my earlier post...

 

Step 1. Detect Ailment (Large class of things (very large?), sight based, microscopic, partially penetrating (organic matter only) )

 

Step 2. Remove Affliction (1d6 RKA, aoe 2m, selective, fully indirect, foreign bodies only). One snag being the size based dcv of a microscopic objects (since you're using selective)  - but I'm hoping a rational GM who would allow microscopic on the sense to counter that (since... it doesn't look like it does? Am I missing something? I thought it would.)

 

Step 3. Heal (body, con, dex, int).  Regrow limbs if you want your character, if they're possessed of a conscience, spend the rest of his life only doing this and nothing else.

 

You can 'see' and target the disease (poison, shrapnel? depends on what the gm will accept as a 'large' or 'very large' class of things), hit every cell with an AoE, and then heal up any attribute damage it had done.

 

And... retire your character, because if they're not spending their entire day bouncing between the cities largest children, veteran and general hospitals there's something wrong with them

[Christopher R Taylor]

You can use the "accurate selective" advantage from the advanced player guides, +¾ and it only hits what you want in the area.

 

I actually built a spell that blows up vermin in the Codex like this,  it kills spiders, rats, etc anything small and ordinary with indirect so it can get them inside the walls.

[indy523]

 

 

Step 2. Remove Affliction (1d6 RKA, aoe 2m, selective, fully indirect, foreign bodies only). One snag being the size based dcv of a microscopic objects (since you're using selective)  - but I'm hoping a rational GM who would allow microscopic on the sense to counter that (since... it doesn't look like it does? Am I missing something? I thought it would.)

 

 

 

Rather than selective you could buy the RKA with a Naked advantage for it Personal Immunity.  Then buy that power with an advantage Usable On Others such that the character being healed gets the benefit unless there are rules against that I am missing?

[DasBroot]

I would have a hard time ruling that doing so doesn't protect the illness - after all, being cooked by a fireball in the game doesn't cure diseases: they're part of the character, like the billions of fauna that live in their guts, which is why I'm jumping through hoops to separate them as entities for elimination. 

 

Really the 'foreign bodies only' limitation should eliminate the need for selective (just a regular AoE against DCV 3)  - I'm always just wary of limitations used as advantages.  

 

It's like making a Fireball spell with a limitation 'Doesn't affect humans' in a standard fantasy setting filled with monsters - it's *technically* a limitation when you DO occasionally need to fireball some humans (evil cultists, bandits, etc) so it doesn't quite fall into the 'a limitation that doesn't limit a power is worth no points' category but most of the time it would actually benefit your human team ("a selective that actually refunds you points *and* doesn't use the target's full DCV? Sign me up!")

 

I like the 'accurate selective' +3/4 advantage idea from the splatbook.  It works around that nicely.

[Lucius]

No what I mean is this:

 

1) Bob has poison in his body, he's dying

2) Bob gets life support from poison; he still has the poison in his body, but isn't hurt by it any longer

3) Bob loses life support, still has poison, and now starts taking damage from it again

 

The life support doesn't negate the effect, it just makes you not suffer from it temporarily.

Haven't we already been over this?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Beating a dead palindromedary

[Christopher R Taylor]

Haven't we already been over this?

 

 

Yep, but you brought it up again in error so I wanted to point that out for the benefit of other people.

[Lucius]

Yep, but you brought it up again in error so I wanted to point that out for the benefit of other people.

There is no error.

 

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

But even a dead palindromedary may get tired of being beaten

[Christopher R Taylor]

Ah I guess you missed the part of that discussion where it was shown that Life Support does not eliminate the effect its protecting against, including rulings by Steve Long and examples from other LS effects like heat and being underwater (pressure etc).  Short Version: Life Support is not a dispel.

[Lucius]

Short Version: Life Support is not a dispel.

As far as I know, you are the only person claiming that it is, should be, or has to be, to do what it does.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

A palindromedary is not a Dispel either, but it doesn't have to be to be a palindromedary

[Christopher R Taylor]

As far as I know, you are the only person claiming that it is, should be, or has to be, to do what it does.

 

 

Other than Steve Long, as I mentioned.  Life Support doesn't dispel anything, it just makes the person not bothered by the existing effect.  Same as if you're underwater and can suddenly breathe water, or in intense heat and gain LS: heat extremes.  The effect doesn't go away, its just not causing you problems while LS is active.  Life Support does not end or cure, it simply allows people to endure the effect unharmed.  That's why its so cheap.

[DasBroot]

*whistles innocently*

 

Life Support  (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases), Area Of Effect (1m Radius; +1/4), MegaArea (1m = 10 km; +1 1/4), Usable Simultaneously (up to 2,147,483,647 people at once (actually 17 billion - 33 doublings. Generator broke); +8 3/4) (56 Active Points)

 

I am Innoculation Man.  I spend my life going to sports arenas, malls, concerts, and other large gatherings where I can make everyone in Line of Effect (sorry Bob..bad time to be on the portapotty) within 20 KM of me immune to the effects of disease for the rest of their lives.... until I reach having inoculated 17 billion people. 

 

(Side note - this power construct roars through stop signs at a hundred and twenty five miles an hour at night with its shades on while guzzling whiskey straight from the bottle with every police cruiser in Californa in hot pursuit)

[Christopher R Taylor]

Gotta put Indirect on that so it gets people indoors and underground too!

[DasBroot]

I thought about it but wasn't sure it would do that... if you throw a fireball at a thug standing beside a wall do you blast the poor civilians hiding on the other side of the wall too?  I thought Indirect would just let you target the other side of the wall if you had a way to perceive a spot to target there?

 

So... what I added indirect (source is character, any path), selective to the AoE and...

 

Detect Humans 17- (Sight Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Penetrative, Telescopic:  +70

 

The power just threw the empty bottle out the window and activated the hood mounted super-charger while heading towards a snake turn in the mountains.

[Lucius]

 Short Version: Life Support is not a dispel.

 

 

As far as I know, you are the only person claiming that it is, should be, or has to be, to do what it does.

 

 

Other than Steve Long, as I mentioned.  font]

Steve Long has claimed that Life Support is, should be, or has to be, Dispel, to do what it does?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

A palindromedary is not a Dispel either, but it doesn't have to be to be a palindromedary

[BoloOfEarth]

Cure (but not Heal) Disease: (Total: 10 Active Cost, 4 Real Cost) Life Support (Immunity: All terrestrial diseases), Usable As Attack (+1), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used (10 Active Points); Limited Power Only confers immunity for diseases the target happens to be suffering at the time of casting (-1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Incantations ("You're not sick anymore" ; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Let me approach this from a different direction.

 

Let's say Bob contracts the Palindromic Plague, which is remarkably virulent.  (It gets you coming and going.)  Luckily, Bob's friend Dr. Joe uses the Cure (but not Heal) Disease as written above on Bob.  Now, it's not a Dispel, so there's nothing to stop the Uncontrolled nature of the Palindromic Plague, so it doesn't actually go away, but Bob is nicely safe from it, so what's the diff? 

 

After healing up his missing CON, Bob leaves the hospital, goes home, and hugs his wife and kids... who haven't been given the Cure, so they're not safe from the Palindromic Plague.  (In case you hadn't guessed, I kinda like saying "Palindromic Plague".  It just rolls off the tongue.)  Wouldn't Jane and little Johnny and Marie then contract the Palindromic Plague? 

 

(BTW, Lucius, my favorite part of your writeup was the Incantations.)

 

Now, it's possible that the condition which causes the Uncontrolled advantage on the Palindromic Plague to cease is "target has appropriate Life Support immunity".  In which case, the Cure causes the Palindromic Plague to end without need for a Dispel.  That's a fairly decent condition for ending the Uncontrolled effect, but that's not necessarily an absolute given. 

[jdounis]

Is something like this valid/useful? i know it's far fetched you force the target to make a 30- Medicine roll to heal himself even at -10[Extraordinary Skill] without proper ingredients its a miracle cure!

 

Your Faith has Healed You:  Science Skill:  Medicine 30-, Usable As Attack (+1 1/2), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally (95 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Only to try to cure a disease on target; -2)