Adjusting Power Frameworks.

[jdounis]

Hello everyone,

 

I've posted a similar question to the Questions Section, but i want some insight too from the more experienced players

 

So i am really confused on how you can use Adjustment Powers on Frameworks, especially on Multipowers,

according to 6E1 if you want to Aid a Multipower you must Aid both the reserve and the specific slot/slots,

is that just to imply that Aiding the reserve doesn't affect the slot/slots or its a hard rule?I am also

confused with negatively affecting them.

 

For example

 

A)Can i Aid just the reserve of a multipower to give more space for active slots to a character?

B)Can  i Aid just one or more slots to make them more powerful, provided their new AP fit in the reserve?

C)Can i Drain a multipower's reserve to restrict the user from activating slots?

 

Thank you

[Hyper-Man]

A)Yes.  See my asymmetric VPP builds for Flash and Superman for examples of Pools already larger than the highest Active Point Power that can be used.

 

B)Yes

 

C)Not by default.

I think it can be done by way of Advantages.  Adjustment Powers must target an ability (or group of abilities by way of a Power Advantage. I'm using the term ability instead of Power because Adjustment Powers can also target Characteristics.  Frameworks (Multipower and VPP) are just containers for abilities.  The Limitation Unified Power does this automatically when one of the character's abilities with it gets Drained then ALL of their other abilities with Unified also get drained.  I also remember Steve's answer to a similar question as being something like - if a character with a 60 active point Blast in a Framework has the Blast hit with a Drain of 30 active points the Blast still uses 60 active points of the Framework even though it is 'operating' at 50% of normal (30 active points).

 

Hope that helps.

 

HM

[jdounis]

A)Yes.  See my asymmetric VPP builds for Flash and Superman for examples of Pools already larger than the highest Active Point Power that can be used.

 

B)Yes

 

C)Not by default.

I think it can be done by way of Advantages.  Adjustment Powers must target an ability (or group of abilities by way of a Power Advantage. I'm using the term ability instead of Power because Adjustment Powers can also target Characteristics.  Frameworks (Multipower and VPP) are just containers for abilities.  The Limitation Unified Power does this automatically when one of the character's abilities with it gets Drained then ALL of their other abilities with Unified also get drained.  I also remember Steve's answer to a similar question as being something like - if a character with a 60 active point Blast in a Framework has the Blast hit with a Drain of 30 active points the Blast still uses 60 active points of the Framework even though it is 'operating' at 50% of normal (30 active points).

 

Hope that helps.

 

HM

 

Thank you for your time answering my questions, some clarifications if you please, 

for A) You can just Aid a Multipower's reserve without needing to affect slot(s), even if it's just a container for power as you refer to C? 

      that part in 6E1 is really confusing to read...

 

Thank you! 

[mrinku]

Negative adjustments only target the slots, not the pool. That's explicit (CC, p 46).

[jdounis]

There is also a point of confusion regarding adjusting VPPs, in 6E1 pg 140 says that if you Adjust a VPP you must adjust both the Pool and the Control Cost based on their Character Points Cost Ratio,

But the example of pg 2 01-16-2017 ERRATA(Medic affecting only the Pool of a VPP) contradicts that without correcting or even referring to this rule.Is there something i am missing?

[Cantriped]

By definition, an Adjustment Power can only​ affect the value of a Characteristic or Power (CC 45). Since a Power Framework is an entirely different class of Game Element (it is neither a Power, nor a Characteristic), logically you should not be able to Adjust it. At all. Ever...

You should​ only be able to adjust them Powers themselves, not the container they were bought through, and based on Steve's previous rulings, any adjustments made to said powers should have no impact on their usage within the bounds of the Framework. For example, if you have a 30-point Multipower Reserve with a fixed slot containing a 30 APs Blast, and that slot gets positively adjusted by 10 points you should end up with a 40 APs Blast (that uses 30 points of the Reserve); likewise if that slot gets negatively adjusted by 10 points you should end up with a 20 APs Blast (that uses 30 points of the Reserve).

However... We've got this annoying set of clauses under Adjusting Power Frameworks (CC 46) that throw a monkey wrench into that logic by defining rules for something that shouldn't work. Negative Adjustments of Framework'ed powers work more or less how I think they ought too, but the rules for Positive Adjustments have always seemed a little wonky and ill defined to me. Assuming I understand the mechanics correctly myself, in CC if you Positively Adjust a power in a Multipower Reserve, you have to split the points of effect between the Blast, and the Reserve that 'pays for' or 'fuels' the Blast. Which result in only getting a 35 APs Blast in the above example instead of 40 APs. Even though frameworks aren't a legal target for the Adjustment Power in the first place (not being a Characteristic or Power for example, or not being a Blast for another)

[Hyper-Man]

There is also a point of confusion regarding adjusting VPPs, in 6E1 pg 140 says that if you Adjust a VPP you must adjust both the Pool and the Control Cost based on their Character Points Cost Ratio,

But the example of pg 2 01-16-2017 ERRATA(Medic affecting only the Pool of a VPP) contradicts that without correcting or even referring to this rule.Is there something i am missing?

I recommend asking Mr. Long in the rules forum.

 

HM

[mrinku]

Don't forget there are different rules for positive and negative adjustments.

 

I think a lot of the confusion can be cleared by taking a step back and realising that of course you have to increase the pool size if you want to increase a power that would otherwise exceed it. As well, even if you don't need to increase the pool size, you might wish to, in order to keep using other powers as normal. Is it ideal? Not really, since boosting the pool may allow more non-boosted powers to be used at once than usual. But I'd go with the pool boost being only available to powers that were also boosted, myself. 

 

Negative adjustments don't run into these issues. Steve ruled they still use up their normal active points in the framework, which is fair.

[Cantriped]

I think a lot of the confusion can be cleared by taking a step back and realising that of course you have to increase the pool size if you want to increase a power that would otherwise exceed it. 

While I accept that there is a degree of metagame logic behind the existing rule. I disagree with the principle behind this argument.

The purpose of a Power Framework (in 6th/CC/FHC anyway) is simply to provide the character a discount for accepting restrictions on how/if those powers can be used together, and their comparative power to one another. Effectively halving the result of any positive Adjustment Power applied to the slots of a power framework isn't a restriction that supports that purpose.

[mrinku]

Cantriped, I fully respect your viewpoint and your summary of the purpose of power frameworks is pretty much my own view.

 

However, the RAW do say to play it this way. I do also agree it's pretty much a Meta thing, but to be honest, so are Multipowers in the first place (VPPs not quite so much - they're needed to model certain things like the Bat Utility Belt, The Power Cosmic and The Book of Shadows.) Most Multipowers could be built as Unified Powers and/or with Variable Advantage. Concepts such as "Power Reserve" and "Control Cost" ARE Meta-game abstractions to begin with..

 

But... every GM is entitled to run this their own way, especially if they see it causing unfairness.

[Cantriped]

Yeah, the RAW is fairly clear, and I doubt it is going to break the game to halve to effects of Positive Adjustments in yet one more circumstance... I just don't like that particular rule very much. Thankfully though it rarely comes up, Absorbtion and Aid/Boost are uncommon powers in my experience. Maybe one day I'll write a house rule for Adjusting Power Frameworks that is more to my taste.

[mrinku]

Yah. It's far more common to see Drains, which are a lot simpler in this regard. Aids on Characteristics are probably a bit more common, but also don't cause so many headaches