Adjustment Powers and Minimum Cost Powers

[knightstar4]

A question has come up in our group for how to use adjustment powers to drain or suppress powers with a minimum cost.  In this particular case extradimensional movement in a 4th edition game.  

So do you need to drain/suppress 20 points of a power to prevent it from functioning?  Drain 1 point of the power to prevent it from functioning?  If the power is bought at 30 point version for a related group of dimensions, and drain 1 point does it prevent the related group of dimensions adder but not the 20 point version?

I haven't found this explained in 4th, 5th, or 6th editions.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Adam

[massey]

From what I remember from an old FAQ, you have to drain the base amount, regardless of Advantages. So for Desolidification, you have to drain the full 40 points (regardless of whether it has 0 End on it or something). But then the guy has to wait until the entire 40 points fade before he can use it again.

[mrinku]

Champions Complete has it nice and clear (p.46). Basically if there's just a minimum cost (which is optional in 6e and set by the GM anyway) it turns off the power as soon as it drops below the minimum. If it's a fixed cost (i.e. Desolidification) you need to get rid of all of the points to turn it off.

 

I'd be wary about applying 6e rules to 4e. ED isn't even a power anymore, it's an advantage on some other movement style (often the gate version of Teleport, but you could apply it to running, flight or even swimming). However in this case I think the fixed cost principle would be the way to go, and your thought about it eliminating adders first feels right too. 

 

The main thing is to game it out appropriately. A GM might let the player Push the drained power to keep that gate open for three more seconds so that at least Mary can escape! or similar.

[Hugh Neilson]

I'd let the drain work normally against a minimum cost power (remembering that the minimum cost is a GM set requirement to begin with, what happens with adjustments also is, as it simply extrapolates outwards). So if, in my game, you cannot buy less than 30 points worth of Teleport, and ShadeWalker has 40 meters of Teleport, if he is drained 20 points, he could still teleport 20 meters.

[mrinku]

Thing is, he is talking 4e where minimum costs aren't a GM decision (aside from everything technically being a GM decision). But I'm good either way any GM wants to call it for the situation in front of them. Some circumstances may make it more sensible to go one way or the other, especially if the minimum cost has been imposed for a campaign specific reason.

[BoloOfEarth]

A question has come up in our group for how to use adjustment powers to drain or suppress powers with a minimum cost.  In this particular case extradimensional movement in a 4th edition game.  

So do you need to drain/suppress 20 points of a power to prevent it from functioning?  Drain 1 point of the power to prevent it from functioning?  If the power is bought at 30 point version for a related group of dimensions, and drain 1 point does it prevent the related group of dimensions adder but not the 20 point version?

I haven't found this explained in 4th, 5th, or 6th editions.  Any help would be appreciated.

 

Adam

 

Given that EDM has a fixed-cost base of 20 points, I'd expect that it's as massey said:  you'd need to drain it all to stop it from functioning at all.

 

That said, if it's bought at 30 points to access a group of dimensions, I'd say that draining the first 10 points would restrict it from traveling anywhere but the base dimension.  However, you'd have to drain the entire +10 adder to remove its effect.  So, IMO, for the 30-point EDM as an example: 

• drained 1-9 points = no effect
• drained 10-29 points = can only travel to one dimension (which one that is should be specified up-front)
• drained 30+ points = EDM is non-functioning.

[BoloOfEarth]

I'd be wary about applying 6e rules to 4e. ED isn't even a power anymore, it's an advantage on some other movement style (often the gate version of Teleport, but you could apply it to running, flight or even swimming).

 

(bolding added)  Since when?  See 6E1:220 or CC:66. 

[Chris Goodwin]

In first-gen (1-3e), Interdimensional was a +1/2 Advantage you could add to Teleport.  Starting in 4e, Extradimensional Movement became its own Power.  There also came about a Transdimensional Advantage that you could add to Clairsentience and other Powers, to let them work through dimensions.  We've had Extradimensional Movement ever since.  

 

Feeling like the Hero Historian sometimes...

[mrinku]

(bolding added)  Since when?  See 6E1:220 or CC:66. 

 

My very bad. I've edited the post to (hopefully) reduce confusion. I somehow missed it when looking for it to check and could only find the Transdimensional advantage. Thanks for picking me up! And thanks to Chris for a good summary. He had better be the Hero Historian since this little black duck is still stuck between 3e and 4e sometimes.

[BoloOfEarth]

No big deal.  There's still stuff I discover, even about the older editions that I thought I knew backwards and forwards.  (For instance, discussion in another thread on Knockback.) 

[Chris Goodwin]

I have this weird memory for details of an edition I haven't played in almost 30 years.  

[Tech]

So, if someone has a Speed drain, the person only loses a point of Speed after 10 points are lost. Is this correct?

[massey]

So, if someone has a Speed drain, the person only loses a point of Speed after 10 points are lost. Is this correct?

 

Yes.  And they only get it back once all 10 points come back.