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PSLs in my Dark Champions Campaign


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#1 xylden76

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 01:02 PM

Reading the PSLs description in 6E1, 87, it doesn't appear that we can use PSLs to 'reduce the 1/2 DCV penalty' induced on things like using Multi-Attack or to offset a particular Combat Maneuver.  Is this correct?  i'm having a discussion at our table and half say it is, while others like me believe it is not possible.

 

thoughts?



#2 Hyper-Man

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 03:14 PM

I know that PSLs can be used to offset the penalty for ground fighting (prone) so I think they should work for your situation. I will have to check my books later.

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#3 Surrealone

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 04:35 PM

In the section on the Multiple Attack maneuver, 6e2 p77 gives us a hint as follows:


COMBAT SKILL LEVELS
Unless the GM rules otherwise, characters cannot buy Combat Skill Levels specifically with Multiple Attack. They have to buy CSLs with the attacks they use to make a Multiple Attack, which they may apply when making the Multiple Attack with those attacks.

 

Thus, by my way of thinking, if you can't buy Combat Skill Levels specifically with Multiple Attack, you also logically shouldn't be able to buy Penalty Skill Levels specifically with Multiple Attack.  Instead, I would think you would need to buy Penalty Skill Levels with the attacks used to make a Multiple Attack -- which could be applied when making the Multiple Attack with those attacks.  This would make the PSL purchase approach congruent/consistent with the CSL purchase approach outlined above in the quoted RAW.

 

With that in mind, someone who has a DCV of 6 and a Blast, RKA, and TK (small group of attacks) with which s/he wants to Multiple Attack ... and not suffer halved DCV might purchase the following (which dodges the PSL question, entirely -- that being my point):

 

+3 with a small group of attacks (9 Active Points); Limited Power: Only usable during a Multiple Attack (Power loses about half of its effectiveness; -1), Limited Power: DCV Only - Cannot be used for OCV or to add to DMG (Power loses about half of its effectiveness; -1)

 

Different people might give different values for the limited power modifiers, but I think I've been a bit conservative, here, as technically the DCV-only limitation constitutes 2/3 of the power's effectiveness going out the window, right there. (i.e. Of the 3 things you can do with the CSLs, two thirds of them are off the table - yet I only listed this as losing half its effectiveness.)

 

REMINDER:
​The player must still state use of these levels for the Multiple Attack ... even though it's the only time they are usable.  That's RAW for CSL's ... i.e. they are NOT persistent and a player may not state they are in use 'at all times' -- per 6e1 p69.  These CSLs would also be for only ranged attacks ... since the powers being affected by the CSL are ranged powers and if they could affect OCV for those powers (i.e. no DCV-only limitation) it would be ranged OCV.  (This is also per 6e1 p69.)

Check out the first paragraph of 6e1 p70 -- especially the last sentence of that paragraph ... for how to properly buy CSLs with limitations ... that affect DCV for both HTH and Ranged attacks; it's a lot more expensive ... and for a good reason!


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#4 xylden76

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:04 AM

Surrealone,

 

thanks for your reply, gives us a lot to think about.  But given your outlined procedures above, essentially you are saying that:

 

Given DCV 6, I want to use Multi Attack to strike two different targets, knowing that I will have an adjusted DCV 3 (for using MA).  I can then buy CSLs to return to DCV 6, but apparently vs ranged only?



#5 Surrealone

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:31 AM

Surrealone,

 

thanks for your reply, gives us a lot to think about.  But given your outlined procedures above, essentially you are saying that:

 

Given DCV 6, I want to use Multi Attack to strike two different targets, knowing that I will have an adjusted DCV 3 (for using MA).  I can then buy CSLs to return to DCV 6, but apparently vs ranged only?

Not quite.  The previously-cited RAW is what says those CSLs can be used to keep you at DCV 6 but only vs. Ranged.  (Keep in mind that those are 3pt CSLs.)

 

The first paragraph of 6e1 p70 (which I also pointed you to) tells you how to do CSLs that let you have DCV vs. both HTH and Ranged.  (I had hoped you'd look that up and be able to work it out from there, but perhaps more input is needed.)  That paragraph states (red/emphasis added by me):

 

As an optional rule, the GM can distinguish between a character’s DCV against HTH attacks and his DCV against Ranged attacks. In this case, a character cannot use a CSL to provide a DCV bonus against Ranged attacks unless the CSL applies to All Combat (a 10-point Level). Moreover, a character with a CSL that applies specifically to a Ranged attack or class of Ranged attacks can never use the Level to improve his DCV. This optional rule reflects the fact that it’s difficult to dodge a bullet or arrow, regardless of your expertise at shooting bullets or arrows. The GM should always use it when characters buy CSLs with Limitations (an accurate gun doesn’t make its user harder to hit, for instance).

 

 

 

So ... barring any house rules, your takeaway from this should be that if you want to follow RAW and use CSLs built akin to what I built (above) to provide  DCV vs. both HTH and Ranged attacks (instead of vs. Ranged only, as above) ... then you need to build them using 10pt CSLs instead of the 3pt CSLs I used in my example.  (It also strongly suggests that my 3pt CSL example should really have been a 10pt example ... but by the time I had cited that paragraph in my previous post I got kinda lazy and didn't rebuild it. :) )

 

 

Oh, one more thing for consideration -- you might want to give a serious look at the Defensive Attack skill from APG1 (Advanced Players Guide #1).  Characters who have this skill suffer a flat DCV penalty when using Multiple Attack rather than their DCVs being halved.


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#6 Lucius

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 04:57 PM


Instead of Levels, buy extra DCV only usable when Multiple Attacking

#7 Surrealone

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:30 PM

Given the CSL prohibition on 6e2 p77, I'd be surprised if a GM would allow that ... because DCV with such a limitation is essentially behaving like a CSL.  But, if the GM will allow it, Lucius' suggestion has merit.


"Evolutionary creativity always renders invalid the 'law of large numbers' and acts in an elitist way."

                                                                  -- Erich Jantsch, The Self-Organizing Universe