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How to build: Colt 24


phoenix240

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The "Colt 24" is a infernal magical artifact from a horror story I read some time ago. Its looks like a regular Colt revolver but on close examination its a prop gun with 666 where the serial number would be. When pointed at a target and the trigger pulled nothing seems to happen. The gun clicks on an empty chamber or seems to misfire if loaded. But exactly 24 hours later the target will suffer an injury as if he'd been shot. There is no bullet in the wound and no sound or visual effect, the wound just appears.

 

In he story, its invariably fatal (But that's difficult to emulate so just consider it a very deadly attack). It also seems to miss (another literary element that its not necessary to perfectly emulate) and its left open if it would affect inanimate objects since billed as a tool for assassination not combat. 

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Colt 24: (Total: 124 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6-1, Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to [two Sense Groups]; +1) (124 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (one damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Day, -4 3/4), OAF Unbreakable (-1), -2 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), 32 Charges (+1/4) (Real Cost: 16)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks if this is a six six six shooter

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Colt 24: (Total: 124 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6-1, Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to [two Sense Groups]; +1) (124 Active Points); Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (one damage increments, damage occurs every 1 Day, -4 3/4), OAF Unbreakable (-1), -2 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/2), Beam (-1/4), 32 Charges (+1/4) (Real Cost: 16)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks if this is a six six six shooter

 

Would the Focus be obvious if it looks like a prop gun when examined and the attack of essentially undetectable and doesn't take effect for 24 hours? Its weird. Some investigating the deaths might draw the connection intuitively but still seems like wouldn't be obvious. And proving it wthout killing someone would be difficult., 

 

This s one of those odd situations where a Limitation and a hefty one functions like an Advantage due to how the item would usually be employed and how Hero System's costing is generally focused around usefulness in fairly straightforward combat. 

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Would the Focus be obvious if it looks like a prop gun when examined and the attack of essentially undetectable and doesn't take effect for 24 hours? Its weird. Some investigating the deaths might draw the connection intuitively but still seems like wouldn't be obvious. And proving it wthout killing someone would be difficult., 

 

I agree, it fails the test for Obviousness. "If a Focus is Obvious, it’s clear to anyone looking at the character that the power comes from the Focus — no PER Roll is necessary." (6e1 376)

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In this case I'd probably allow the OAF because of the invisible power effects. A lot of active points have been used to cover up the nature of the power. But the IAF argument has a lot of merit.

 

As well, it still looks like a weapon. The double bluff nature of the artefact is such that if it is drawn and aimed at a target who then reacts normally that they may well dodge the shot, disarm the shooter, beat them in a quick draw roll-off, or otherwise take advantage of it having to be operated like a normal gun.

 

Figuring it out afterwards is also made that much easier by the lethal appearance of the focus.

 

Compare that to a camera with the same power effect but that killed someone it took a photo of. That would definitely be IAF but be far harder to work out.

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I'm still torn. It looks like a weapon initially bit its easy to demonstrate that its not and no one that seriously looks at it will know its a magical weapon . Heck, let them dodge the "attack" laugh it off as a joke when absolutely nothing seem to happen when you pull the trigger then use it again fire it into the air or at something or something or even let your target examine it.  Or point it at them from behind or a similar situation.Though allot of that is part of the IPE Advantage....

 

The trick issue the context. Its a murder tool not a combat tool. In a way its similar to some issues I've run into with mental powers. They're not at their best in straight forward combat but in other contexts they can be really nasty. 

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The line between obvious and inobvious isn't always, well, obvious.

 

In this situation, the character has had to pay a lot to get the invisible aspect to the power.  It also looks exactly like a gun.  You walk up and pull it on someone, they're going to react as though it were real.  I don't buy the argument that you can be like "ah ha ha, it's a joke, it's not a real gun.  Now just hold on a minute and let me shoot you with it.  It's not gonna do anything, trust me."

 

If it was inobvious, it would look like a TV remote control, or a hat.  Looking like a gun, you're likely to get shot by the police before your target takes any effect from it.

 

OAF looks fine to me.

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The line between obvious and inobvious isn't always, well, obvious.

 

In this situation, the character has had to pay a lot to get the invisible aspect to the power.  It also looks exactly like a gun.  You walk up and pull it on someone, they're going to react as though it were real.  I don't buy the argument that you can be like "ah ha ha, it's a joke, it's not a real gun.  Now just hold on a minute and let me shoot you with it.  It's not gonna do anything, trust me."

 

If it was inobvious, it would look like a TV remote control, or a hat.  Looking like a gun, you're likely to get shot by the police before your target takes any effect from it.

 

OAF looks fine to me.

 

It looks a lot like a real gun until examined. The user can demonstrate its "not real' in a number of ways. And unless the person using has demonstrated hostility to that person in some fashion is that target automatically going to assume you're intend to murder them? As I mentioned, you could let them panic, dodge as you pull he trigger and absolutely nothing happens. Laugh about having got them good, then shoot them with it. 

 

I've seen people laugh off someone pointing fairly realistic looking guns at them because the idea that was real was just so completely out of context. This artifact wouldn't be something you'd use in a combat situation on someone that would have reason to believe its real. There is no connection to the gun. visible sign of it at.  and that target doesn't take any effect for a day.

 

If the would be assassin did draw and "fire" it at someone, possibly while saying "Bang" the officer would see nothing happen. Cops don't instantly shot people. If they take the weapon. its a prop gun. A day later, the target suffers a mysterious gunshot wound. If those particular officers hear about, the reason explanation is a weird coincidence unless these kind fo delayed effect weapons and magic are fairly common.  

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I disagree. There is no apparent connection between the use of the power and the results of the power. Therefore, it is not Obvious. This is a similar situation to an Obvious Focus used to provide Invisibility. In that case, the Focus remains visible. (6e1 241)

 

 Yeah, similarly you can conceal an ordinary gun but even if this weapon is discovered, it doesn't look like a functional weapon. Its not immediately plain that its a infernal magical weapon that invisibly curses its targets to die a day later. At least in most settings and to most people. 

 

I remember a thread along time ago about "deceptive sfx" possibly being an Advantage. This seems like one of those odd situations. 

 

Edit: To muddy the waters even further, what if the phantom gun shot left forensic clues? There was a bullet that matched the caliber of the pistol and, despite it being a replica/prop, did match up  to ballistic (somehow...) and/or there is evidence that they fired a gun on user. This hypothetical as I don't remember if that was the case with the item. 

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Let me be the one, Transform (major) to a person with 24 hours to live. All or nothing. (Reverse if secret of the curse is learned)

 

:-)

 

 

In fairness, that is essentially what the Colt 24 is doing: cursing its target to die in 24 hours in a very specific way this would allow a person (say a PC) that discovered the nature of gun to find a way to save a target that had been "shot" before their time was up. But it does seem to violate the guideline that Transform shouldn't directly emulate other Powers.  

 

Edit: and it does handle some other issues like what happens in the attack misses or is directed at something other then a living person. 

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In fairness, that is essentially what the Colt 24 is doing: cursing its target to die in 24 hours in a very specific way this would allow a person (say a PC) that discovered the nature of gun to find a way to save a target that had been "shot" before their time was up. But it does seem to violate the guideline that Transform shouldn't directly emulate other Powers.  

 

Edit: and it does handle some other issues like what happens in the attack misses or is directed at something other then a living person.

 

When transform was introduced to the system it was priced like a killing attack with the rationale that, if an attack was able to kill an enemy the same power should be able to change it in some way.

 

I don't think it emulates as it is looking for an instant kill power that does not kick in for a day....

 

It is however an argument that leads to transform being used for almost everything... :-)

 

Doc

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As for the focus question, well, it is an accessible focus. The gun can be taken away.

 

As to the question of obviousness, well, if you see it happen once then it is possible to relate the weapon to the effect. Just because players might not immediately associate the 'obvious' effect with the inobvious one does not mean it is inobvious. The sleight of hand might make me argue for a 3/4 limitation rather than the full 1...

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As for the focus question, well, it is an accessible focus. The gun can be taken away.

 

As to the question of obviousness, well, if you see it happen once then it is possible to relate the weapon to the effect. Just because players might not immediately associate the 'obvious' effect with the inobvious one does not mean it is inobvious. The sleight of hand might make me argue for a 3/4 limitation rather than the full 1...

 

But if you see it happen, its possible you can relate allot of  not obvious effect to the item. If someone had remote control that did the same thing: they point it at someone and a day later they appear to be shot its possible someone might connect the effect or, in the context of a modern day setting with no knowledge of magic are they going to assume its some kind of odd accident. I wouldn't rule it much different from a role playing perspective than "Harvey pointed that fake gun at Ralph and a day later (if they even know the exact time) Ralph got shot." If they even think of that, I don't see most people jumping to the conclusion that Harvey must have some kind of magical gun that invisibly silently shoots people a day later.

 

It feels like assuming a bit of genre/medium savvy. "The GM mentioned him doing that, it must be important". When those sorts of coincidences happen all the time in the real world. 

 

Even if Harvey had a grudge against Ralph. it seems likely you'd assume he might had something to do with Ralph getting shot (like hiring a killer) than he has an evil magical gun. 

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As I understand focus, its only dealing with the activation of the power, not its effect on the character.  That is, you can tell someone used a power with a focus, not necessarily its effect.  You can reason from cause to effect that a loud flashing gun caused the bullet hole, but the focus is the attack, not the impact.

 

In this case, the gun makes an audible click and is clearly a weapon, so its obvious.  But the effect is delayed and thus the cause-effect connection may be never understood or known.  The fact that an effect is subtle or unknown (or greatly delayed) doesn't make the focus any less obvious, as long as it was obvious when it initiated the (in this case very delayed) effect.

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Here's a non-Transform method that might work.

 

45    Colt 24 (6e heroic): RKA 1d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Power Defense; All Or Nothing; +1/2), Transdimensional (Single Dimension (Time); Damage occurs 24 hours in the future; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2), Does BODY (+1), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible, effects of Power are Invisible to both target and other characters;[includes 'bleeding' damage until target is dead] +2) (90 Active Points); OAF (-1) - END=0

 

HM

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The question of "obvious or not" is an interesting one.

 

Try throwing it in the bin in the airport security line - does the result mean it is obvious?

 

Pull it out during a political rally in plain view of the Secret Service, or when the cop who pulled you over comes up to your car window. Obvious or not?

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The question of "obvious or not" is an interesting one.

 

Try throwing it in the bin in the airport security line - does the result mean it is obvious?

 

Pull it out during a political rally in plain view of the Secret Service, or when the cop who pulled you over comes up to your car window. Obvious or not?

 

 

But in those situations is it obviously magical weapon that can invisibly kill people a day later or obviously something that looks like a fire but is a non firing prop gun on further examination which would produce the same reaction an ordinary realistic prop gun?

 

 

If you pull out a realistic (or even somewhat unrealistic) ordinary toy gun in a sensitive situation, its going to cause alarm thought its a harmless object. The Colt isn't, innately going to cause a bigger reaction as described. That its really deadly isn't immediately obvious even when its used thanks to IPE and the time delay. 

 

I always consider the Obvious tag to be mean "does the item clearly produces the effect and/or can be easily traced to the user" 

 

For example, If I have a focus that give me +20 Intelligence but looked like a broadsword, is that Obvious? It would be difficult to get through metal detectors and people would react strongly if I whipped it out at Debate Club. But if it produces no observable effect when working its IAF.

 

 So pointing the Colt at police officer during a traffic stop is a bad idea but not due to nature of the power but due to the superficial appearance otf the Focus.

 

The character could possible get some benefit from that. For exmaple, a character night be able to use the Colt to bluff an attacker that doesn't know he gun won't affect them for 24 hours. 

 

The Colt's power isn't visible and difficult to trace in most games. If you got off a "shot" at the president and nothing happen aside from you being tackled and beaten up by the USS and likely arrested. When they examine your weapon its a prop, no one saw or heard anything happen. You look like some kind of nut or bad practical joker. 

 

Then the president dies of a gunshot wound a day later. In the context of a modern world setting will they assume some bizarre coincidence or that the loon at the rally had a magical gun?

 

If you point it at the cop and he shoots you away when the gun is later examined does it look like the cop was actually in danger from the cursed gun or like he react to an idiot that pointed a fake weapon at him?' You get shot either way but the consequences would be signficantly different in the former case. 

 

If the Colt gave the ability to fly (with  no visible sign that it was doing so)  but was otherwise harmless.  Would the reaction be any different in any of the hypothetical situations?

 

The Limitation value seems very context dependent. In some games, it might be Obvious (magic is well known, for instance) but I was thinking of it in the context of the "real world". where things like that were widely known to be impossible. 

 

Context aside, I think the question comes down to is it Obvious as a focus for what it does, the Power it grants. It looks like a gun and people will, logically react to it as gun which is going to have repercussion in game, some positive, some negative, but I'd call its appearance SFX. 

 

And I thought it was delayed death that would be the tricky part. My Hero muscles are rusty. 

 

But my call is that to be an Obvious Focus for the delayed death effect there would have to be some immediately clear (to the most people) sign that it had done something to cause the person's later death to the observing its use. If no one saw it, the Powers effects would be invisible. Most people wouldn't be able to tell the victim was doomed to die (or suffer grievous injury) in a day, at least not easily, if they weren't there to see the initial use. Which is easier to conceal, downplay or use without drawing attention since its completely quiet and invisible. 

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If the limitation is inobvious, the player might as well make it a hat, or a McDonalds cup, or a phone. It's a weapon of assassination and it would clearly be more useful to have it look like something you can carry into the White House than to have it look like a weapon. If the GM rules that the Advantages I already paid points for are going to further cost me when it comes to what Limitations I can apply, I might as well get full value for that Limitation.

 

Again, a closely related question is if I buy x25 range, and no range modifier, then is the focus still obvious? Nobody there in the field is going to be able to see me when I use it, but people will still call the cops if they see me carrying around a sniper rifle.

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You know, I think we are looking at this from the wrong direction.

 

It is obvious if the characters can make the association NOT the players. If it is bought as OBVIOUS, then the GM is given a big flag that characters should be "given" the opportunity to make the association. If the focus is bought as inobvious, it should not be mentioned in passing, though might be learned of indirectly if the correct questions are asked...

 

Like most things in HERO, the build tells you what does or does not happen in game, not the SFX...

 

:-)

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Well and there are two stages of perceptibility

 

You can have an obvious focus that has no obvious special effect -- a gun that doesn't seem to do anything

You can have an inobvious focus that has an obvious special effect -- a hat that glows and lifts things

You can have an obvious focus that has an obvious special effect -- a wand that shoots a beam at things

You can have an inobvious focus that has an inobvious efect -- a shirt that protects you from cold extremes

 

So blanket statements are a bit misleading in this context.

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