What's the most stripped down you've run HERO?

[Sam On Maui]

Usually when folks talk about HERO, it seems there's an assumption you're running a full-fat, RAW game with extra optionals turned on. But I was wondering - what's the leanest, most bare-bones you've run it? Recognizing its a tool box, you can do quite a lot with it! Did you get rid of the speed chart? Stop tracking END? Ignore STUN? Toss hit locations away?

For instance, I just ran a game based on Doom and really, REALLY pared things down. And after that? I trimmed a little more off to boot.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3dkBHyXsZaReTF0aG9MNGlkRVk/view?usp=sharing

I was inspired by some board games as well as games like Fate, Marvel Heroic, etc. Also, I was trying to emulate the game in question, which was very fast paced, had no STUN, etc. Pulled from games like Team Fortress and Halo for role inspiration. It worked well, and the players had a great time.

How about you?

[Beast]

played in a 1 shot using wildstrike

[mrinku]

Played 3rd edition Champions without Champions II or Champions III 

 

Compared to even the heroics of that era it was very stripped back.

 

(But someone will no doubt pip me with 1st Ed...)

[Joe Walsh]

Heh. Yeah, starting with 2nd edition, then later running Espionage, Danger International, and Justice Inc., I've run the game pretty stripped down from the beginning I suppose!

 

But, then, that set the pattern for me. So it doesn't seem weird to run HERO only using some of the rules. Just last year, I ran a modern espionage campaign that was all about Skills (no Powers other than Running and Swimming) and involved very little combat since the idea is to get in and out without being detected.

 

HERO is a great system and works very well for a lot of things, as was proven way back in 3rd edition, which had support for all kinds of things, including giant robots. And let's not forget Autoduel Champions!

[kjamma4]

Once during a brutal heat wave, I ran a game wearing only a speedo.

[assault]

Once during a brutal heat wave, I ran a game wearing only a speedo.

 

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to go there.

 

On the actual question, I started playing with 1st edition Champions. The options just didn't exist.

[Ninja-Bear]

Running 5th, (I haven't had a chance yet to run CC), I don't use END, no optional rules but still use KB.

[Doc Democracy]

I have played Champions since the old grey covered black and white first edition.

 

I wasn't thinking of whether it meant earliest (smallest) edition but instead exposing the least mechanics to the players.

 

For me, I ran a League of Extra-ordinary Gentlemen game where I took all the numbers out of the game. I graded things as poor, good, very good, amazing and extra-ordinary. I had all the numbers in front of me but the players powers, skills and everything else were in text. The only dice rolled were for resolving actions, so no more than 3D6.

 

It was a great experience, I do think that the players engaged more with the abilities and went for colour rather than pure effectiveness.

 

I fully intend to try it out again with a longer game.

[Christopher R Taylor]

If I was to do a Western Hero update to 6th edition I'd likely do it more stripped down in some ways: no powers section, no ED (just "defense" which is PD), focus on only what you need to run a wild west game.

[Doc Democracy]

If I was to do a Western Hero update to 6th edition I'd likely do it more stripped down in some ways: no powers section, no ED (just "defense" which is PD), focus on only what you need to run a wild west game.

Well, in a cowboy game you might rename PD as toughness, or 'orneriness'. :-)

[Pattern Ghost]

Rename Stun to Shucks. As in "Shucks ma'am, it was only a flesh wound."

[Tech]

Played 3rd edition Champions without Champions II or Champions III 

 

Compared to even the heroics of that era it was very stripped back.

 

(But someone will no doubt pip me with 1st Ed...)

 

Yep! 1st Edition with no END used. That's how I introduced it to my long-playing friends. Interestingly, when I added END back in, it took them awhile to get used to it. There were no such things as hit location charts back then.

[bigdamnhero]

Here's the simplest I've gone for a one-shot intro game I ran. It was a Firefly game, so there weren't a lot of Powers or complex equipment builds. Overall: I concluded Hero really has two core mechanics:

• Roll 3d6 and subtract it from this number (ie Skill/Char Rolls).
• Roll these dice and tell me the total on the dice; I may also need the “BODY” total (ie Normal damage/effect rolls).

So I did everything I could to reinforce these two mechanics and avoided introducing other mechanics whenever possible.

• Instead of OCV, I listed an Attack Roll for each of the character’s attacks/weapons/maneuvers, equal to OCV +11 +/- any maneuver/weapon modifiers. This gave each attack a #- roll associated with it, which makes it look just like a Skill/Char Roll. This is really just a change in presentation than a rules change; I've been doing this for my convention/demo games for years, and it seems to really simplify combat for newbies.
• I left out Combat Skill Levels entirely.
• Killing Attacks: This may be the biggest change, and perhaps the most "controversial." We calculated damage using the same mechanic as Normal Attacks, but applied the damage as per Killing Attacks. For example, a 3 DC Killing Attack, which would normally be 1d6K, rolls 3d6; the die total is STUN, the “BODY” total is BODY damage; the only difference from Normal Attacks is the BODY Damage ignores nonresistant defenses. Essentially this turns Killing Attacks into a +0 AVAD Advantage, while saving you from having to explain a different mechanic of calculating damage. I had tried this one before for a con game, and it freaks the hell out of experienced Hero players - “Did you mean to give me a 6d6 Killing Attack!” - but it’s easier for new players if they only have to learn one damage mechanic. Statistically the two methods don’t produce identical results, but it’s a pretty minor difference, especially at Heroic levels.
• Primary Characteristics: Instead of listing their actual values, I just gave relative ranges: average, good, excellent, and so forth, along with Skill Roll numbers. I had the actual values in my notes for places when they are relevant, like using DEX for initiative; but I was surprised how rarely they were actually needed.
• For STR, I didn’t bother listing the Char Roll; just the # of dice for STR damage, which is used far more often.
• I dropped the Speed Chart: One less Characteristic, and no need to describe the turn sequence beyond “Sarita is fastest, so she goes first.” (Behind the scenes, I just gave everyone SPD 3, and after every three Phases I’d say “Take a Recovery.”)  
• PRE Attacks: Instead of introducing another mechanic, we just used opposed PRE Rolls (or PRE vs. EGO), with modifiers as appropriate. This provided remarkably similar results, tho if I'd have to put some more work into fleshing this out if I was thinking of introducing it in a "regular" game.
• PD & ED: Combined into one “Defense” stat. (Behind the scenes, I just gave all characters the same PD & ED.) Resistant Defense was just listed as “Armor.”
• Ignored END: (Behind the scenes, I just built all characters with enough END to make it through a typical combat.)
• I called DCV “Evade” just to eliminate an acronym; and since I wasn’t using OCV it made sense. (I might’ve preferred to use Dodge, but didn’t want to confuse it with the Maneuver.)
• There weren’t any mental powers in this game, so I was able to ignore OMCV & DMCV.

A few of these I've incorporated into my regular gaming, but only a few. Overall it reinforced my conviction that the core mechanics of Hero are actually quite simple. But it was a little too rules lite for my taste.

[Cantriped]

The most stripped down I've ever run HERO was using Champions Complete (with no supplements, not even FHC): Sans Knockback/Knockdown, Sans Hit Location Rules (which I otherwise use regardless of campaign type of genre), and banning most of the Perks and Talents.

[Chris Goodwin]

I've played in, and occasionally run, Danger International, which is pretty stripped down.  We would sometimes do an even more stripped down version that we called Death Wish:  10 point characters, no Disadvantages, no Powers, last survivor wins.  Sometimes there'd be some kind of Macguffin like you've all been given a plague that will kill you in two hours.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yeah we did play 2nd edition, which is about as stripped down as it gets.  And in 3rd edition I remember the Death Wish games Chris mentions.  I remember one where I made a guy that had lots of stealth and DCV and really nothing else, he did pretty well.

[DreadDomain]

As I replied on rpg.net:

 

We never really stripped down HERO per say but we did use simplifications:

1) We very rarely used Endurance

2) Instead of rolling the full amount of dice for damage, we used a rule found in HERO5R where we rolled 1d6. From memory 1-2 gave 25% less than average damage, 3-4 gave average damage and 5-6 gave 25% more. These values were written on the GM screen for all to see for each damage class.

3) We enforced the "you snooze, you lose" rule for combat. Players had to be sharp and be ready for their turn.

4) For VPP, we had pre-written builds written on the character sheets so it would be easy to tweak.

5) We rolled OCV as a skill (OCV+11+Modifiers on 3d6) and told the GM by how much we succeeded (effectively, the opposition DCV).

6) We enforced that if a rule could not be recalled on the spot, GM would call and we would look up the official rule in the book after the game

7) Rarely used the Multiple-Attack rule

8) Combat rules set at Superheroic (no hit location, impairing, disabling, etc...)

9) STUN multiplier set at 3 (unless power/maneuver/weapon says otherwise)

 

That was pretty much it. Because of that, combat was running fairly fast and furious in our medium-to-high-level-power Champions games.

 

Nowadays, I would also consider:

 

A) Everyone has the same SPD (making Block more relevant even in Champions)

no Post 12 recovery (effectively, the notion of "Turn" fades away) however, I would consider keeping a free recovery after the very first attack

C) As a default, Adjustment Powers return rate is set at 5 points a Minute (doubling their base cost) reducing bookkeeping in combat some more

D) Merging PD and ED

 

For character creation, the best thing that could happen to Champions were the Champions Gallery as well as book like Champions Powers. It didn't strip anything down but they do speed up character creation

[Lucius]

I usually play fully clothed.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary doesn't seem to need clothes

[bigdamnhero]

We never really stripped down HERO per say but we did use simplifications:

1) We very rarely used Endurance

2) Instead of rolling the full amount of dice for damage, we used a rule found in HERO5R where we rolled 1d6. From memory 1-2 gave 25% less than average damage, 3-4 gave average damage and 5-6 gave 25% more. These values were written on the GM screen for all to see for each damage class.

3) We enforced the "you snooze, you lose" rule for combat. Players had to be sharp and be ready for their turn.

4) For VPP, we had pre-written builds written on the character sheets so it would be easy to tweak.

5) We rolled OCV as a skill (OCV+11+Modifiers on 3d6) and told the GM by how much we succeeded (effectively, the opposition DCV).

6) We enforced that if a rule could not be recalled on the spot, GM would call and we would look up the official rule in the book after the game

7) Rarely used the Multiple-Attack rule

8) Combat rules set at Superheroic (no hit location, impairing, disabling, etc...)

9) STUN multiplier set at 3 (unless power/maneuver/weapon says otherwise)

1, 4, 5, 6 & 9 are standard in our games as well. We shoot for 3, but aren't too strict about it. 8 depends on the genre, for superhero games yes, for heroic games we typically use Hit Locations but then no Knockback; Impairing/Disabling comes up rarely.

 

Nowadays, I would also consider:

 

A) Everyone has the same SPD (making Block more relevant even in Champions)

no Post 12 recovery (effectively, the notion of "Turn" fades away) however, I would consider keeping a free recovery after the very first attack

C) As a default, Adjustment Powers return rate is set at 5 points a Minute (doubling their base cost) reducing bookkeeping in combat some more

D) Merging PD and ED

 

I've thought about D as well. In supers games, having the villain with a high PD but only a middling ED, or vice-versa, can drive some fun tactics. But in my present low fantasy game, all 5 PCs wound up buying the same levels of PD & ED anyway. (Which actually surprised me since energy attacks are significantly less common. But I'm lucky I play with people more interested in character concept than in munchkining costs.)

[mrinku]

 

I've thought about D as well. In supers games, having the villain with a high PD but only a middling ED, or vice-versa, can drive some fun tactics. But in my present low fantasy game, all 5 PCs wound up buying the same levels of PD & ED anyway. (Which actually surprised me since energy attacks are significantly less common. But I'm lucky I play with people more interested in character concept than in munchkining costs.)

 

 

Fire is common enough in low tech settings. Probably more so than modern ones, since that's how all food is cooked, homes are heated and light is produced. Stuff tends to be more flammable, too.

 

Modern adventurers who find themselves needing to set fire to a house at night might have to search around with their electric lights for a can of fuel and hope that someone has a match or lighter (these days its common enough that no one smokes). A fantasy group would just use one of their already lit torches to set fire to the thatch.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I encourage players to buy their ED lower than PD, because you can train your PD up boxing and such but energy defense is not likely to be something people can or do train up much if at all.  And it fits genre better for some settings like fantasy, where a fire blast should hurt you more than a club.

[Cantriped]

I encourage players to buy their ED lower than PD, because you can train your PD up boxing and such but energy defense is not likely to be something people can or do train up much if at all.  And it fits genre better for some settings like fantasy, where a fire blast should hurt you more than a club.

You can inure yourself to heat or cold by exposure. For example, as a result of years of washing dishes by hand in the hottest water I could endure, my hands can handle much, much, hotter temperatures than my feet. I sometimes even joke that my hands have 1 point of resistant ED. But it is true that training for ED would be much, much harder (and less efficient) than training for PD.

[bigdamnhero]

Fire is common enough in low tech settings. Probably more so than modern ones, since that's how all food is cooked, homes are heated and light is produced. Stuff tends to be more flammable, too.

Fair enough. But in game how often are character damaged by (non-magic) fire? Far less often they get hit with heavy/sharp things IMX.

[Cantriped]

True, it is less common. But even in Low Fantasy energy weapons are more common than in Modern* (Non-Superheroic) campaigns. Torches may not be great weapons, but if you throw a flask of oil at the enemy first and then lite them up it will be far more effective than just beating on them with a club (flaming or otherwise).

 

*In Low Fantasy, anyone can get their hands on Torches, Oil is likewise fairly commonly available in this era. Meanwhile, neither these, nor modern energy weapons (tasers and such) are especially common in a typical modern world.

 

It also depends largely on the GM, and the setting.

In Golarion (the pathfinder campaign setting) goblins are one of the most common enemies I throw at the players. They go to great lengths to weaponized fire. Most goblins carry (nonmagical) torches in addition to their swords or glaives. They also have actual combat skill with said Torches (in Hero: WF (Torch) and two or more 3-point CSLs). Goblin alchemists make Alchemist's Fire (a nonmagical slash weapon that ignites on contact with the air). So when I GM this setting, energy attacks tend to be somewhat more common than they would otherwise be (although physical attacks probably still win out).

[Sean Waters]

I don't not use END but I often build characters that don't need it to run their powers: if you want a simpler game, do that, make everyone have the same SPD and buy the same amount of PD as ED.  Build the characters right and you can skip a lot of the apparent complication.  You don't need new or house rules, you just need a clear idea of the character build mechanics and how the choices impact the game.

 

I wrote a board game using the full Hero rules, each of the pieces a proper Hero character, but you'd never know because all you needed to play the game was a knowledge of how far the piece could move, what its combat value and damage were and how much damage it could take.  It was a zombie apocalypse game where you had to explore random board sections for random salvage  The pieces were built using the automaton rules (the only real divergence from the RAW being PCs could, well, had to, take the 'takes no STUN' power).  All the powers used no END (and could not be pushed), rPD and rED were the same, everyone had the same BODY and Run, yadda yadda.

 

You wouldn't even know it was Hero, to be honest, but I did, and it was.