Imagine if you will

[Watchman-BN]

...a psychotic villain who has a compulsion for inflicting pain, but has a total code against killing. I would like to play up the crazy element of this villain by having him harm NPCs in a Joker-esque manner.

 

Further imagine that one of the heroes has healing that can heal limbs on others.  That is, there is no harm the villain can inflict that can't be undone by a roll or two from the hero.

 

Is there there a way to buy damage (transform?) that is hardened against healing? Any way to prevent healing from restoring limbs and/or restoring all stun and body, at least,  short of GM fiat?

[mrinku]

You can't Harden an attack.

 

You could try damage over time so that the healing has to keep being applied. A lot is going to depend on special effects and GM's approval, though.

 

Power Defense usable on others?

[Nolgroth]

It might be a stretch, but Difficult to Dispel seems like a good prototype for a Difficult to Heal effect. Failing that, an attack that Triggers when a healing power is used. The Hero literally risks killing the victim whenever they try to heal them.

[Tom Cowan]

maybe Power Def only vs healing?

[doccowie]

You can certainly buy Major (or even Severe) Transform, and state that the way to fix it does not include normal healing - you transform the victim into a creature that has only one arm and one stump. There is nothing to "heal" back, any more than I can "heal" an extra arm on to myself.

Or Transform to affect characteristics - so the victim's base STUN is 10; you could be Aided, but not Healed.

Now, if the methods to reverse the Transform are very obscure, then I can certainly see a case for an advantage, but if this is a villain the point cost becomes less significant anyway.

[Watchman-BN]

Several good options here, thanks!

 

-Some sort of damage to the victim on a trigger seems like it would work, but it's an awkward mechanic to represent non-healable damage. I do like the idea of "oh my God, the wounds are re-opening" and "if I try to heal him, I might kill him".  interesting RP options there.

 

-Power Def, usable against others, only vs. healing seems to work mechanically. Giving it to dozens of victims, more or less permanently, seems problematic. 

 

-Transform is probably the best option. Villain transforms victim into injured person with a missing limb. The way to heal it back is....something, based on special effects.

 

Any other ideas? Would a 6e Negation power (triggered) or permanent suppression field (suppress healing) work?  That way, the PC could offer some slight healing, especially if they push their power.  This might be the equivalent of 'making the patient more comfortable."  I'm mostly trying to stop full healing and limb regrowth.

[tombrown803]

drain healing with the trigger advantage. when the healer used his healing/regeneration power on the fist victim, he/she is hit with the healing drain.

[IndianaJoe3]

Maybe Suppress Healing, AoE: Surface on the victim?

[BoloOfEarth]

drain healing with the trigger advantage. when the healer used his healing/regeneration power on the fist victim, he/she is hit with the healing drain.

 

Unfortunately, the Drain would take place after the Healing.  Sure, he couldn't Heal additional damage after the first time, but he's probably already fixed enough to make a difference.

 

 

If you go with Power Defense, Usable as Attack, Only vs. Healing, Linked with whichever attack you're using to harm the person, you should be good to go.  I'd consider adding a level or three of Difficult to Dispel to the Power Defense part, though, otherwise even a relatively small Dispel will get rid of it.

 

For example: 

 

Cursed or Poisoned Knife:  HKA 1d6+1 (2.5d6 w/ STR); OAF (-1), Linked to Power Defense (-1/2) [20 AP, 8 RP] plus Power Defense 15 points, Usable as Attack (+1 1/4), Difficult to Dispel (120 AP; +3/4); OAF (-1), Only vs. Healing (-1/2), Time Limit (1 Week; - 1/4)  [45 AP, 16 RP].  Have the Usable as Attack stopped if the target has Healing or Regeneration of his own, and the Time Limit stopped by a somewhat obscure magical ritual or rare medicinal herb (depending on it being cursed or poisonous).  This can make the whole thing a plot thread, where the heroes can investigate the mystic origin or biochemical source of the anti-Healing portion.

[Lucius]

The Wound that Will Not Heal: (Total: 112 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Killing Attack 2d6-1, Area Of Effect Accurate (1m Radius; +1/2), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Regeneration; All Or Nothing; +1), Does BODY (+1), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (112 Active Points); 1 Charge which Recovers every 1 Month (-3), -2 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Limited Power Only duplicates damage of original wound (-1/4) (Real Cost: 22)

 

The Trigger is, of course, a Healing Power used on the injury.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary that will not heel

[Lucius]

Several good options here, thanks!

 

-Some sort of damage to the victim on a trigger seems like it would work, but it's an awkward mechanic to represent non-healable damage. I do like the idea of "oh my God, the wounds are re-opening" and "if I try to heal him, I might kill him".  interesting RP options there.

 

-Power Def, usable against others, only vs. healing seems to work mechanically. Giving it to dozens of victims, more or less permanently, seems problematic. 

 

-Transform is probably the best option. Villain transforms victim into injured person with a missing limb. The way to heal it back is....something, based on special effects.

 

Any other ideas? Would a 6e Negation power (triggered) or permanent suppression field (suppress healing) work?  That way, the PC could offer some slight healing, especially if they push their power.  This might be the equivalent of 'making the patient more comfortable."  I'm mostly trying to stop full healing and limb regrowth.

Untreatable Injury: (Total: 75 Active Cost, 22 Real Cost) Drain Healing: Can Heal Limbs Adder 2d6 (standard effect: 6 points), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; +3/4), Can (Remove) Adders (+1) (60 Active Points); One Use At A Time (-1), Limited Power Only to Drain the "Can Heal Limbs" Adder (-1), No Range (-1/2), Conditional Power Only usable after inflicting an Impairingor Disabling injury (-1/2) (Real Cost: 15) <b>plus</b> Detect A Single Thing: Healing Power that can restore limbs/organs 11- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, Sense (15 Active Points); Limited Power Only for Trigger (-1) (Real Cost: 7)

 

If points are no object, you can make it Invisible too.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary, heel thyself.

[DasBroot]

...a psychotic villain who has a compulsion for inflicting pain, but has a total code against killing. I would like to play up the crazy element of this villain by having him harm NPCs in a Joker-esque manner.

 

Further imagine that one of the heroes has healing that can heal limbs on others.  That is, there is no harm the villain can inflict that can't be undone by a roll or two from the hero.

 

Is there there a way to buy damage (transform?) that is hardened against healing? Any way to prevent healing from restoring limbs and/or restoring all stun and body, at least,  short of GM fiat?

 

Keep in mind the hero PAID to have healing that can heal limbs on others.  This is something they bought to avoid this kind of situation - taking it away might make the villain memorable but it might just upset the player with the power: after all, how often do they really get to use this paid for aspect of their power?

 

Instead why not have the 'Joker' target the healer and his team-mates for continually ruining his 'fun'? 

[Dr.Device]

Keep in mind the hero PAID to have healing that can heal limbs on others.  This is something they bought to avoid this kind of situation - taking it away might make the villain memorable but it might just upset the player with the power: after all, how often do they really get to use this paid for aspect of their power?

 

Instead why not have the 'Joker' target the healer and his team-mates for continually ruining his 'fun'? 

I second this.

 

If I were playing the healing character and this came up, I would likely not return to the game. It's not about the points spent for me, but about the principle of the thing. If you didn't want the character to be able to heal limbs, you shouldn't have allowed the power.

[DasBroot]

I'd return to the game but to me it's not much different than coming across a super-villain with +40 ED vs Ki SFX attacks when I'm playing the only Ki SFX using character in the campaign.  Maybe it's to 'tell a story' - but it's a story I wasn't involved in: I didn't take Mr Anti-Ki as a Hunted or Rival.

[Sean Waters]

Well, you could rule that the PC's healing power does not work against injuries inflicted by Bob (as in "What do you call a man with no arms and no legs in a swimming pool?").

 

There will be a reason for this, perhaps based on the heroes SFX or history, or it could by psychological: it is another mystery to solve and, at the end of it all, once solved, the hero can put all the damage right.  This could be a major plot point that helps to clarify how the character's powers work.

 

Effectively you are adding a -0 limitation to the PC's power, without telling him or her

 

If you were desperate to have a mechanical explanation, how about ongoing uncontrolled damage?  Add a limitation that it does not cause additional Body but offsets healing, or that it is applied in part when healing is administered, meaning that when the hero tries to heal a victim they hurt them more.  Of course ENOUGH healing will overcome the effect, but they don't know that, and having the poor victim scream in pain rather than sigh in relief when they are 'healed' could be an interesting dramatic moment.

 

Alternatively dccowie has suggested Transform and that might be your best bet here, if the above does not tickle your fancy.

[mrinku]

At the end of the day, you're really going to first have to define HOW the villain's power works to prevent power-based healing. It's not sufficient to just say "can't be done, just because I'm psycho". Now, that may require looking at how the hero's power works. The possibilities are pretty open-ended, but special effect interaction is important here.

 

Simple example - the power is an actual magical curse, but can be countered with an appropriate Dispel rather than Healing (though the damage itself may still need Healing once the curse is lifted).

 

Cursed wounds that can't heal are something you do find in mythology. But that doesn't preclude a cure to the curse itself (possibly through divine means).

[Watchman-BN]

Haven't checked this thread in a while, so didn't notice there were several actually helpful replies. Thanks (especially to Lucius who built out the whole power as an example)!

 

Sean, yes, I am looking for a mechanical way to do it, rather than hand-waive/fiat.  I don't know that I'm desperate (!) for it, but that is the general expectation at our table.  Triggered additional damage is an option, but (1) uncontrolled powers should have some 'reasonably common and obvious' ways to shut them off (rules!) and ( thinking about it, continuing the victim's pain as they get healed seems excessive.  I'm mostly looking for a way to make healing qua healing ineffective against specific targets.

 

mrinku, agreed, special effect is important, I'm just not focusing on it here because I was most interested in the naked mechanics. And yes, a transform seems like the kind of effect. In fact, it might be a linked power in his knife. So, as he's doing HKA damage, he is also doing a cumulative transform into <person with power defense only v. healing>.   [sidebar: power defense can apply to aid or healing if the character 'wants them to'. This creates an issue for the Villain using a power-bestowed-by-transform. It also brings to mind a question of whether an unconscious/comatose person can 'want to' use Pow Def.]

 

More likely, I'll link Power Defense, Usable as Attack, Persistent, to the HKA. @BoloofEarth had the idea first, I think. Kudos!  It stops the healing from working, and doesn't leave me with any dangling rule questions. Yes, it will get dispelled fairly easily and there's another PC who will do that.

 

If I can think of any reason that won't work, then it's back to Extra-dimensional teleport: only to dimension where healing doesn't work on Psycho-villain's attacks. Hey, it's not quite the same thing as hand-waiving the problem! 

[megaplayboy]

I'd go with a Transform that can impose various kinds of impairing physical complications on the target.  Allow the healer to spend points to learn how to adapt their power to heal such injuries.  Play it out in game over several sessions.  

[Doc Democracy]

I am with megaplayboy.

 

I think the special effect here is an attack that cannot be healed by conventional means.  What you are, in game terms, doing is changing the base state of the victim to someone that has a lower STUN/BODY baseline.  The transform is the cause and only by tackling the transform can you 'heal the damage'.

 

 

Doc

[dsatow]

As usual, the disclaimer (YMMV with your GM):

 

I would allow you to put the advantage (difficult to dispel) which would affect the healing.  Each level of difficult to dispel would double the effective points healing would need to heal the damage. Normal recovery of would not be affected.