gmrcreedon99 Posted September 3, 2017 Report Share Posted September 3, 2017 I was just watching Ironman 3 and the entire story is based on the fact that Tony Stark was an A-hole before he became Ironman. I am looking at creating that as a complication. My question is - would a rivalry that the PC has no knowledge of initially be worth something extra? In looking at the rules, Stark doesn't know of the rivalry he created with the villain until later on. Would that be worth an additional 5 points reflecting the -5 for the rival not knowing, 0 for both know or would you create it another way? Personally, I would create this being a professional jerk to others as a Floating Rivalry, Professional and Romantic, Rival is More Powerful (running terrorist organization with Supers), Seek to Harm or Kill for 20 points but would be 25 points for forgetting about all the people you step over on the way up. I would also suggest buying wealth, fame, and the other associated traits to support this lifestyle. This would be a common in frequency if the GM decides to have something related to the jerk as an adventure once every few sessions. The PC can have minor events like paternity suits or law suits or major events like they want to kill him based on this also. These minor events could lead to the major events with storylines and villains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 This seems more like a topic for discussion than a rules issue, since so much of it comes down to the GM's judgment, so I've moved it to the Discussion board where anyone can respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 5, 2017 Report Share Posted September 5, 2017 I'm not sure how 6th deals with it, but 5th had a Rivalry disadvantage for a character. There was a reduction in value of the disad if the rival was unaware of said rivalry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Rivalries can be one-sided. If Tony was unaware of it, it just doesn't count as a Complication for him. The other guy gets a +5 for his rivalry in this case. And... are you sure this is a rivalry and not something nastier like Psych: Hunting Stark or Psych: Must destroy Stark Industries? Rivalries are meant to be for people who are basically on the same side. Tony having been a jerk in the past might be better just defined as a Social Limitation. Social: Used to be a Jerk, or Social: Semi-reformed Asshole. Tony might also have Psych: Arrogant, which continues to get him into trouble (i.e. Age of Ultron). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Rivalries can be one-sided. If Tony was unaware of it, it just doesn't count as a Complication for him. The other guy gets a +5 for his rivalry in this case. And... are you sure this is a rivalry and not something nastier like Psych: Hunting Stark or Psych: Must destroy Stark Industries? Rivalries are meant to be for people who are basically on the same side. Tony having been a jerk in the past might be better just defined as a Social Limitation. Social: Used to be a Jerk, or Social: Semi-reformed Asshole. Tony might also have Psych: Arrogant, which continues to get him into trouble (i.e. Age of Ultron). Actually, if the other guy is unaware it is -5 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrinku Posted September 6, 2017 Report Share Posted September 6, 2017 Actually, if the other guy is unaware it is -5 points. CC p128: +5 Rival is unaware of Rivalry The only thing there that gives a reduction in value is the -5 for the rival being inferior. Maybe it was structured differently in 5e - I don't know. In any case, nothing about Aldrich Killian in Iron Man 3 really qualifies as Rival to my eye. He goes from neutral, possibly friendly, direct to Enemy following Tony's humiliation of him. He comes back not as a Rival, but a full fledged Villain. Tony and Cap display Rivalry in the first Avengers movie, and especially in Civil War. Neither really wants to see the other hurt - they just want to win the argument about who's better/right. Rivals can want each other dead, but as described in the Complication description they shouldn't be actively pursuing that, or it's a Hunted. Killian is definitely in the Hunted zone - and since he and his operation are one of Iron Man's traditional big Hunteds (Mandarin), something to that effect on Iron Man's character sheet would be appropriate. i.e. Hunted: Mandarin, as powerful, NCI, 8-. I'd rate Killian's operation as roughly equal in power as Tony's. Don't forget he's not just some guy in a suit but the head of one of the most powerful corporations in the world, a member of the Avengers and well connected with SHIELD and various governments. Killian's powerful and well prepared, but his organisation isn't a patch on HYDRA. Mandarin mostly trashes Iron Man by virtue of surprise, not sheer power. However, looking back at the OP's full question, and putting aside the Iron Man 3 example - yeah you could model a character who tended to piss off allies as having a floating Rivalry. I'd still tend to do what you seem to want using Social Limitation: Skeletons in the Closet, or similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 7, 2017 Report Share Posted September 7, 2017 CC p128: +5 Rival is unaware of Rivalry I'm not sure how 6th deals with it, but 5th had a Rivalry disadvantage for a character. There was a reduction in value of the disad if the rival was unaware of said rivalry. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 You could do this as a Hunted/Watched where the other person wants to cause embarrassment or humiliation rather than killing you. You would not even have to know the other person has a grudge necessarily (at least until they obviously act on it), but that would probably involve 'mystery complications' allocated by the GM. That is the effect it has on the IM character - bad stuff happens to them. It only becomes a rivalry if they put themselves out on a regular basis to do bad stuff back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 I'd just build it as a straight up Negative Reputation: Used To Be An A-hole. The various Rivalries, Hunteds, and so on would be there for people he angered along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted September 14, 2017 Report Share Posted September 14, 2017 KS: Feline Taxidermy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmrcreedon99 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 There are many great ideas on this but what would the value of each be? Would you say that would be appropriate or fair as a value based on the type of regular attacks on the character via the Tony Stark example or level of disadvantage? I see it as 20 to 25 as being fair for this regular harassment plus embarrassment. As an extension what would you say and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted September 24, 2017 Report Share Posted September 24, 2017 "We make our own demons" - Hunted: Assorted Old Enemies Frequently (As Pow; NCI; PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find; Harshly Punish) 25 pts Lucius Alexander I make my own palindromedary taglines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wick Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I would say his corporate competitor, Justin Hammer, in Ironman 2 was more of a professional rival (perhaps romantic as well with him trying to court Miss Potts away from Tony). Ivan Vanko, on the other hand, was definitely hunting Stark though. Aldrich Killian from Ironman 3, was the leader of the villainous organization AIM. While AIM is no Hydra you have to remember that Hydra should be a hunted of the Avengers ( a whole team of high powered supers), and not Ironman on his own. Aim was full of dudes that can burn right through Stark's armors with their hands. I honestly lost count of how many suits were destroyed. It took a bunch of Jarvis piloted suits ( I thought that was a scary idea at the time and was later made real in Age of Ultron), a powered up Pepper pots, War Machine, and Ironman to win the day. Not too shabby for some geek that Tony snubbed way back when. By the way I would love to see a film with the forgotten Avenger girl friends getting captured by a would be super villain. While the bad guy is trying to send his ransom demands or what have you the combined brain power of Dr.Betsy Ross and Dr.Jane Foster along with the fiery fists of Pepper Potts ruin his day. Not a front line marvel film but it would be fun and I would buy a movie ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted September 26, 2017 Report Share Posted September 26, 2017 By the way I would love to see a film with the forgotten Avenger girl friends getting captured by a would be super villain. While the bad guy is trying to send his ransom demands or what have you the combined brain power of Dr.Betsy Ross and Dr.Jane Foster along with the fiery fists of Pepper Potts ruin his day. Not a front line marvel film but it would be fun and I would buy a movie ticket. Depending on which continuity you're in, that's Thor (Jane Foster), Red She-Hulk, and Rescue. Not my first choice for a team, but anyone expecting a few helpless ladies would be quite surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted September 30, 2017 Report Share Posted September 30, 2017 When I did a Jack Bauer write up I gave him a Hunted by His Past as he always seemed to get into trouble with suff he did before the show started. No matter what problem he solved from his time in Sarejevo another problem would get written into his past as fast as he could kill the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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