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Alternatives to Turn & Speed predictability?

Turn Speed Segment

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#21 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:36 PM

The main problem with this idea, which I do like, is the way the rules work regarding changes of speed, which would make it not work at all the way you intend.


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#22 Sean Waters

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 02:12 AM

True, but I figure that if you only change SPD PS12 it is all good.


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#23 Doc Democracy

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:30 AM

I like the fact that you are adding a really critical roll into the combat sequence.  Every turn the balance of the fight might shift based on the number of actions each side gets.  I think that I would have the variable happen with one roll and warn players that while putting all their eggs into one basket can pay off, 3 SPD and +3 SPD, 8 or less, is pretty risky.  :-)

 

Better to take +1 SPD, 8 or less, +1 SPD, 10 or less and +1 SPD 11 or less.

 

The best thing about this is actually the fact that it is all within the rules as currently written and the level of variability is entirely within the hands of each individual player.

 

Doc


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#24 Hugh Neilson

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:48 PM

The main problem with this idea, which I do like, is the way the rules work regarding changes of speed, which would make it not work at all the way you intend.

 

When the rules frustrate, rather than facilitate, the game, it is time to change the rules.  The SPD change rules have needed an overhaul for a LONG time, and setting a different SPD at PS 12 has no balance issues I can see.



#25 Jagged

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 03:48 AM

I thought changing SPD on post 12 was the official rule?

#26 Sean Waters

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 04:47 AM

IIRC you have to have a phase available on both your SPDs so if you went from SPD 3 to SPD 4 PS12 you could not take your first phase until segment 4.  Something like that.  You can always change SPD on segment 12 (unless you are SPD 1).


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#27 Jagged

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:51 AM

That is the optional rule I think. At least in 4 & 5 if I am remembering correctly.

#28 Sean Waters

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:14 AM

I think you are right.  The whole changing SPD thing seems complicated and needs a proper look at, but you can definitely change SPD freely on PS12.


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#29 Christopher R Taylor

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 02:44 PM

My preferred method is "the next segment both the new and old speed would act on" which is phase 12 for sure, but sometimes earlier.


Author of novels Life Unworthy, Old Habits, and Snowberry's veil, available in print and ebook

 

Also author of Hero Games licensed products:

The Lost Castle

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Jolrhos Bestiary
Two Kings Keep

Elenthar's Tower

 

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#30 Doc Democracy

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 06:56 AM

The official, IIRC, was pretty draconian.

If you are SPD 4 and change to SPD 3 on segment three, the next common segment to both SPDs is segment twelve as SPD 3's segments are four and eight.

If you are SPD 3 and change to SPD 4 on segment four, the next common segment to both SPDs is segment 12 as SPD 4's segments are six and nine.

I think I would rule that the switch from 4 to 3 would mean you would go on on segments eight and twelve and the switch from 3 to 4 would mean that you go on segments eight, ten and twelve.

My thinking is that if the SPD 3 character uses segment four to up his SPD then he would next be active on segment 8. If he had been SPD 4 from the beginning the next active segment would have been six but he has to delay that until eight. The chart says next would be nine but two successive actions is often pretty powerful and so I pushed segment nine into segment ten.

Not a straightforward rule but pretty plain (I think) and fair. I don't think it would be possible to game the chart using this method and it does not penalise in the way the official rule does.

Doc

"A man's ambition must indeed be small
To write his name upon a sh**house wall
But before I die I'll add my regal scrawl
To show the world I'm left with sweet f*** all"
- Shane McGowan, Sea Shanty


#31 mrinku

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 04:46 PM

CC says (p137) 

"A character can change speed on any of his Phases. After he has changed his SPD, he cannot act (though he may Abort, see below) until both SPDs would have had a Phase." (my emphasis)

 

So with Doc's example, my reading is that if SPD3 declares a change to SPD 4 on their Phase 4; SPD 4 would get an action on segment 6, and then the character is free to take an action on segment 8, which is the first Phase where both speeds have had a chance to act. They are now properly SPD 4 and act on segment 9 and 12. In effect, this example gets all four phases, but suffers an enforced delay on their second Phase for shifting gears.

 

This would also mean that if you want to take advantage of the segment 12 double tap, declare the speed change at the end of your second last phase, NOT at the end of Phase 12, since you'll have to wait for the first subsequent segment in the next turn where both speeds have had a chance to act.

 

4e didn't allow voluntary mid-turn SPD changing (always done as a post 12 choice). As usual, I'm clueless as to how 5e did things, and am waiting for the 6e clarification that shoots me down :)







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