Ultimate Mystic and Charge that Never Recovers (again, lol)

[iamlibertarian]

So looking through UM, page 50, sample power, Veil of Perfect Surprise

 

There has been this discussion in the last couple of weeks surrounding Charges which Never Recover. And it seems consensus is that said charges are gone. Forever. Can never be used or re-created again (short of paying more CP). And I get that. It finally got through my skull.

 

But with the sample power description of the Veil, it still makes me tilt my head to the side and scratch my head. 8 CP for a one-shot, 1 hour power. 8 CP for something which can NEVER be cast, ever again. EVER. Not in a different circumstance; not on behalf of another character; ever. I can think of so many better ways to spend that 8 CP, but then would be missing out on this cool concept. 

Is there a better way to build this as something which can be re-created, with the character having to take time and effort, can be Reasonably given out to others, without costing 8 CP each and every time for 1 use, but still retaining the concept of making this a special event like this particular example power? ("Here, I have this cool idea to help you get past this particular event," as opposed to some talisman that boringly just recharges itself daily.)

 

And before anyones says powers shouldn't be given out to others teammates, many, many powers and spells are Intended to do just that (AIDs, Barriers which protect the team, Density Increase on your team's brick, Dispel to remove bad effects on a teammate, Invisibilities for a stealthy teammate, EDMs taking the team elsewhere for adventures, movement powers, and so on, but tack on a focus and charges and now it is taboo.

 

If UOO is part of the price, then the CP *are* being paid.

[Chris Goodwin]

I don't have that book in front of me to check.  Is there anything in the text that discusses it further?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Reducing the limitation of "never recovers" to "recovers with time, circumstance, ritual etc" for a smaller bonus would be the simple, direct answer.  Instead of an additional -2 make it -1 or -1½

[Cantriped]

I am not familiar with the example power (I don't own the source). However you could use Delayed Effect, Extra Time (To Prepare), and various other procedural modifiers on a Power Usable On Others (either inherently or through the modifier of the same name), probably bought through a VPP, in order to simulate the narrative elements you seem to be describing.

[tombrown803]

If the power was bought with a focus, there are options to represent the power being more difficult to recover

[massey]

"Charges Do Not Recover" is a weird limitation.  I think it's probably inappropriate for most games.  Players who take it are either getting screwed, or are screwing the game.  You're either losing character points, or you're trashing something that you don't care about.  Like you're Summoning an exploding goblin who dies when he uses his power.  It's limiting to him, but it's not really limiting to you.  So I'd look really, really closely at any power that had that limitation.  Either the player doesn't know what he's doing, or he really knows what he's doing.

[DasBroot]

Reducing the limitation of "never recovers" to "recovers with time, circumstance, ritual etc" for a smaller bonus would be the simple, direct answer.  Instead of an additional -2 make it -1 or -1½

 

This is the answer, plain and simple.  I'd never pay 8 points for something I could use once, ever, when I could pay 10-12 for something I could use once and a while.

 

There are a lot of questionable builds and powers in those books.  You'll trip across more.

[Cantriped]

The most appropriate usage for Charges Which Never Recover is in game elements the PCs are not expected to pay CP for directly. For example: Normal Equipment, Wondrous Items created using the Alternate Magic Item Creation Rules (from Fantasy Hero), Equipment purchased through Resource Point Pools, and temporary McGuffin Powers* granted by the GM.

* (For example: NPC 032's 'heroic sacrifice' turns you into a God Amongst Men, but only long enough to win the battle against this adventure's BBEG.)

The same goes for most of the Perks in my opinion. But I have issues with the principle of taking away CP permanently. I simply refuse to do it, even when the RAW has indicated I should, such as for Followers.

 

As near as I can tell though... almost all language supporting the permanent loss of CP has been scrubbed from CC/FHC. Nothing in the rules actually says that a Game Elements CP value changes when it is "Used Up", "Killed", or "Destroyed". So although a Power with Charges Which Never Recover can never be used again, nothing actually prevents the character from selling the Power back for it's full value afterwards (or even using those points to buy an identical power next adventure... except a sensible GM of course). Likewise. even things like Duplicates and Followers can technically be sold back (and repurchased) if they die. Although in the case of Followers you do lose any Experience they've acquired while they adventured with you when they Die or are Sold Off.