How lethal does Hero become with hit locations and disabling/impairing wounds?

[mrinku]

Since the example uses "+1 to Hit Location targeting with Longsword" and not "+1 to Hit Location (Head) targeting with Longsword" I'm pretty certain it's for all hit locations. Hit Location targeting penalties are a category, just as Range penalties are.

[Hyper-Man]

But this is the rule:

 

 

 

What does that mean?

 

 

 

 

 

Right but is that all hit locations or one hit location?

 

Because 8 points for Bob to negate all hit locations for his sword is... kinda broken you know what I mean?

Not really. They only work with longswords. Not short swords, bastard swords or any other type of attack. If 1 point PSLs are purchased for an even more unique weapon then Disarm becomes that more effective.

 

HM

[megaplayboy]

Hey, with 12 PSLs vs hit location penalties, you can target the eyes of your opponent, for x2.5 body, x5 stun.  (Advanced Players Guide, IIRC).  

[mrinku]

Glad I don't have the thing, really.

 

TBH it's STILL most effective to Stun and follow up with a Haymaker if ya can. Stunning someone effectively gives you up to 4 PSLs to target Hit Locations for free...

 

Punch 'em inna gut; sock 'em onna jaw!

[Christopher R Taylor]

Not really. They only work with longswords. Not short swords, bastard swords or any other type of attack.

 

 

Ooh yeah, its 24 points to negate hit location penalties with every single attack you possess.

 

If you don't see a problem with that, I question how much you've played games with hit locations.

[Hyper-Man]

I've played Amber using Fantasy Hero with hit Locations before the diceless rpg was created and Zelazny was still writing the Merlin series. My character was the son of Benedict and had 8 CSLs w/swords among other things. It didn't imbalance the campaign.

 

It just depends on the players, characters & campaign.

 

HM

[Blazmo]

Ooh yeah, its 24 points to negate hit location penalties with every single attack you possess.

 

If you don't see a problem with that, I question how much you've played games with hit locations.

 

 

Well, it is only 2 points less per level than simply buying OCV. 

 

Thanks for the advice too, guys, you've been a real help.

[megaplayboy]

Ooh yeah, its 24 points to negate hit location penalties with every single attack you possess.

 

If you don't see a problem with that, I question how much you've played games with hit locations.

The usual solution in-game is to cap the number of PSLs you can buy.  You could similarly buy 8 PSLs against range and have no penalties out to 125m.  

[DasBroot]

True, though I would argue that no range penalties out to 125 m is a lot less of a problem (unless all campaign fights happen in brightly lit open fields) than x5 stun for being Captain Headshot.  

 

(Or x 10 to open a fight for being Captain Invisible Headshot.)

 

I think I would go with half CV for PSL for a campaign guideline.  If you have a CV cap of 8 then a player can get up to -4 - which would make headshots even possible (15-3d6).  A 12 to get 6, and a 16 to get the -8 (at which point unless the average DCV in the game is cruising above 10 you're better off saving the points and just taking the +8 OCV shot against 19-3d6.  

[mrinku]

As a point, even if it WAS limited to a specific hit location (and it potentially can be with limitations), I can't see the issue is affected much. +8 to Hit Location (Head Shot) is basically the same Any Location if the only intent is to cause lethal damage, or to game the x5 STUN multiplier.

[Christopher R Taylor]

The usual solution in-game is to cap the number of PSLs you can buy.  You could similarly buy 8 PSLs against range and have no penalties out to 125m.  

 

 

Yeah but range modifiers are kinda meh when you can buy a ¼ advantage to make them go away completely.  Not really an issue in most games in any case.  Hitting a guy at 125m isn't nearly as impactful as hitting a guy in the head without penalty in a hit location game.

[mrinku]

Yeah but range modifiers are kinda meh when you can buy a ¼ advantage to make them go away completely.  Not really an issue in most games in any case.  Hitting a guy at 125m isn't nearly as impactful as hitting a guy in the head without penalty in a hit location game.

 

I agree, but need to correct you slightly. The +¼ Advantage is the Half Range Mod one. It's a +½ Advantage to eliminate them entirely (or make them Line of Sight).

[Hyper-Man]

Think of them like CSLs only for damage*. They will only work if the attack hits.

 

*like Deadly Blow.

 

HM

[Ninja-Bear]

I played in a fantasy game where a character was supposed to be Robin Hood and had +8 csl and it was annoying every shot was a head shot.

[mrinku]

Very caddish behaviour. You sure it was Robin?

[Alibear]

I played a character who could link himself to people's heartbeat so if he his he hit the vitals. To say that he was deadly would be an understatement.

[megaplayboy]

Yeah but range modifiers are kinda meh when you can buy a ¼ advantage to make them go away completely. Not really an issue in most games in any case. Hitting a guy at 125m isn't nearly as impactful as hitting a guy in the head without penalty in a hit location game.

It is if they're not aware of you. Dcv halved, and so are hit location penalties, so you can tag that sentry in the head at 125m.

[Alibear]

That is very genre dependent. Taking out an enemy in Fantasy at 125m is quite impressive.

[bluesguy]

In my heroic campaigns I will allow players to get up to +3 PSL vs. Hit Locations and +3 PSL with Range Offsets.  One of the characters in one campaign was a marks woman with a bow.  Many adventures were in outdoor environments, much to her advantage.  She would typically find a place to hide (stealth), set/brace and pick off targets 1/2 to 2/3 of the way across a 6' gaming table (how many ever inches/hexes that is).  If she thought she could get away with it, surprise out of combat (for instance), she would take a head shot.  The big thing with placed shots in the assurance of how much Stun the target takes.

 

Other players had +3 PSL vs. Hit Locations with their favorite melee weapons.  That also applied to major villains.  And all the bad guys had 'random hit locations' when they tried to hit the players.

[Era Scarecrow]

hmmm, in the previous game I played (125+75?) you could put 3-4 into PSL's, but spare points were hard to come by.

[bluesguy]

I've been thinking about starting a Hero game some time soon and I was planning on making it a Heroic-level game. I was thinking of using the optional '1/2 of BODY in damage kills you' rule in order to make the game more lethal but I was also planning on using hit locations with disabling and impairing wounds and I recently heard that this increases the lethality of the game significantly. Is this true and if it is do you think I should use the optional 1/2 BODY rule along with hit locations and impairing/disabling wounds?

 

I would recommend the following to increase how lethal combat in your campaign is.  This is based on many years of playing/running heroic Hero Campaigns.

 

• Limit the ability to heal.  No "healing potions".
• Limit the ability to heal by someone 'laying on hands/casting spell'
• Limit the maximum resistant defense a character can have.    If killing attacks in your game will average 3 to 5 points of Body per roll (1d6 to 1 1/2d6KA), then set the maximum resistant defenses to 5 points.  That means most characters should have 3 to 5 rPD/rED.
• Limit the maximum OCV/DCV
• Allow players to buy combat levels
• Allow players to buy penalty skill levels, especially for 'called hit locations'
• Include martial arts skills that can be combined with melee weapons to increase damage potential
• Use Hit Locations

 

If you do just those things you are going to have a much more lethal campaign.  It is unlikely will end up with a TPK situation, since Hero leans towards characters being stunned/knocked out vs. being killed, but it could happen.  Also you won't add that much additional bookkeeping or time to a normal combat (potentially extra roll for the hit location).

 

If that isn't lethal enough I would add the max damage rule.