Exploring the Possibilities of HERO System

[Mister E]

"Aura Of Forgetfulness": Change Environment, -11 to INT Rolls [but not associated Skill Rolls] (33), AoE (Radius; +1), LoS (+1/2), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), Personal Immunity (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Persistant (+1/4)(148 ap); Always On (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Only For Rolls To Remember Character (-1), Psionic (-1/2).

(42 cp)

 

Anyone (w/ a psyche, but not w/o) who sees the characer must make an Extraordinary INT Roll at -11 to remember the character. Failure means they don't remember the character.

 

Knowledge Skills of the character are unaffected.

 

So if a victom spends character points* in a Knowledge Skill of the character then that skill can be used to remember the character. But never just INT w/o the -11 penaly.

 

Transdimensional is used to make the character difficult to remember even if the targets are in different dimensions. Specifically the future for trying to remember the character at a later date.

 

The more time goes by the more difficult it is to remember the character. This is as per the usual penalties for using memery.

 

 

*An in game explanation for the spending of character points is always required. I allow character points to be spent during game play. But not more than one level at a time. So only Familiarity (8-) is possible at first (1 cp).

[Demiurgos]

Concerning the gun that scans targets & uses different power levels of attack:

 

[6E1 p.130]

 

Powers that costs zero END (for any reason) are always at full power & cannot have their active points reduced as per usual.

 

This goes for powers w/ charges which inherently cost zero END.

 

So if you want a gun w/ variable power level settings & that gun has charges (bullets) then it is going to be more complicated.

 

You are going to have to break it down into smaller discrete powers representing each power level.

 

E.g.

 

"Low Threat": 1d6 RKA

"Medium Threat": +1d6 RKA

"High Threat": +1d6 RKA

"Maximum Threat": +1d6 RKA

... ect.

 

I'll keep that in mind for 6e. The specific power levels for Killing Attacks is probably a good idea, since those are different. Differentiating between lethal and regular damage is something HERO does differently than what I'm accustomed to. I've been taking it one step at a time and began with character creation, since creating a character is the first thing you do, so I haven't taken an in-depth look at combat rules yet. The more durable superhumans would require higher levels of KAs, but I'll get to determining the what's appropriate when it's time to see how combat goes.

 

Complicated doesn't bother me if that will accomplish the desired effect. I came into this fully aware HERO's reputation for complexity, and if it enables me to realize a unique character in concrete form, then that's fine.

[Demiurgos]

"Aura Of Forgetfulness": Change Environment, -11 to INT Rolls [but not associated Skill Rolls] (33), AoE (Radius; +1), LoS (+1/2), Transdimensional (Any Dimension; +1), Personal Immunity (+1/4), 0 END (+1/2), Persistant (+1/4)(148 ap); Always On (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Only For Rolls To Remember Character (-1), Psionic (-1/2).

(42 cp)

 

Anyone (w/ a psyche, but not w/o) who sees the characer must make an Extraordinary INT Roll at -11 to remember the character. Failure means they don't remember the character.

 

Knowledge Skills of the character are unaffected.

 

So if a victom spends character points* in a Knowledge Skill of the character then that skill can be used to remember the character. But never just INT w/o the -11 penaly.

 

Transdimensional is used to make the character difficult to remember even if the targets are in different dimensions. Specifically the future for trying to remember the character at a later date.

 

The more time goes by the more difficult it is to remember the character. This is as per the usual penalties for using memery.

 

 

*An in game explanation for the spending of character points is always required. I allow character points to be spent during game play. But not more than one level at a time. So only Familiarity (8-) is possible at first (1 cp).

 

Interesting. I'd have to think about it that it wouldn't make him too overpowered in light of his other powers (which I haven't disclosed, so of course no one's aware of them). (Or there's the option of using it for another character as well.) Because the memory erasure isn't even his main power. Its purpose is for ensuring he remains unknown. (He takes great care to conceal the fact that he has abilities in the first place, which is one reason for the weapon, which is an Obvious Focus, that people can look at. Give them that to look at, and there's no reason to think he has powers of his own.) He isn't one for flashy displays of power, and he doesn't wish to provide the super scientist inventors running around and government agencies with information that would enable them to make countermeasures against his abilities. He's content to operate as the power behind the throne, and operated as such until the final campaign he appeared in, in which he acquired enough power that it was no longer necessary to stay concealed. When he was finally defeated, he was retired, to reward the heroes after all the losses they sustained that they beat him once and for all.

 

He has four main groups of power. (Done that way so any one of them can just be removed wholesafe if needed to reduce his power.) Two offensive, one of which is the weapon that's already been posted about, one with the invisibility and memory erasure (That Which is Done in Secret Shall Remain Secret, because that's its purpose), and then I guess what would be categorized as defense. It's a power I haven't seen in comics, and looking at the Champions universe and how he'd fit in there, he'd have his own niche. Doctor Destroyer is the top armor/tech guy, Menton's the top psionic, Teleios is the top geneticist, Takofanes is the top magic user, etc. He'd have his own area that would make him a threat amongst all the other master villains.

[Demiurgos]

Having multiple powers for a single Focus looks like multiple Foci on the character sheet.

 

I guess the trade off for being disarmed of more than one power from a single grab comes from being able to wield more than one power in the first place.

 

Idk

 

Yeah, that's the tradeoff. It's one weapon that is capable of multiple functions. So if he's disarmed of it, he loses all of those functions at once. That's why Focus is a Limitation. Though usually people have them as separate Foci, that way if they're disarmed of one, they still have the others.

[Mister E]

The 5-Point Doubling Rule:

 

For 5 cp you can double the number of any piece of equipment you have.

 

This goes for vehicles followers bases & computers too, in which case the extra ones may have completely different builds than the original.

 

See the first page of the equipment section of most books.

 

"This is an unmodified cost, not subject to Power Modifiers or Power Frameworks & is considered a separate power (not part of the equipment's Active Points)." [CC p.161]

[Mister E]

Interesting. I'd have to think about it that it wouldn't make him too overpowered in light of his other powers (which I haven't disclosed, so of course no one's aware of them). (Or there's the option of using it for another character as well.)

I played in a game once [WFRP2] with an apprentice grey wizard whose NPC master had an Aura Of Forgetfulness. Very strange. The diffence between in game & out of game knowledge was stark. Led to some funny roleplaying opportunities.

 

Because the memory erasure isn't even his main power. Its purpose is for ensuring he remains unknown. (He takes great care to conceal the fact that he has abilities in the first place, which is one reason for the weapon, which is an Obvious Focus, that people can look at. Give them that to look at, and there's no reason to think he has powers of his own.)

 

An actual gun in hand would make a phantasmal killer gunshot more believeable.

 

Not knowing an illusionist is around makes Mental Illusions more believeable too. The targets are not on guard.

 

He isn't one for flashy displays of power, and he doesn't wish to provide the super scientist inventors running around and government agencies with information that would enable them to make countermeasures against his abilities. He's content to operate as the power behind the throne, and operated as such until the final campaign he appeared in, in which he acquired enough power that it was no longer necessary to stay concealed. When he was finally defeated, he was retired, to reward the heroes after all the losses they sustained that they beat him once and for all.

Saving the cape for the big reveal?

 

He has four main groups of power. (Done that way so any one of them can just be removed wholesafe if needed to reduce his power.) Two offensive, one of which is the weapon that's already been posted about, one with the invisibility and memory erasure (That Which is Done in Secret Shall Remain Secret, because that's its purpose), and then I guess what would be categorized as defense. It's a power I haven't seen in comics, and looking at the Champions universe and how he'd fit in there, he'd have his own niche.

1. Super-Gun

2. "Offensive Mystery"

3. Psionic Obfuscation Powers

4. "Defensive Mystery"

 

Doctor Destroyer is the top armor/tech guy, Menton's the top psionic, Teleios is the top geneticist, Takofanes is the top magic user, etc. He'd have his own area that would make him a threat amongst all the other master villains.

Process of elimination.

 

a- not powered armor

b- not more psionics

c- not genetic science

d- not magic

 

& you say you've never seen this power before used in the main stream.

 

Okay. I think I figured it out.

 

The super power is the ability to make people think you know the secret to picking up hot women.

 

Jk <3

[Mister E]

The power to pique the interest of anyone named Mister E.

[Mister E]

Darth Quisitor: "We have ways of making you type."

[assault]

The power to pique the interest of anyone named Mister E.

 

Not a good power to have.

[Mister E]

Not a good power to have.

No relation.

[Demiurgos]

On 10/29/2017 at 3:08 AM, Mister E said:

An actual gun in hand would make a phantasmal killer gunshot more believeable.

 

Not knowing an illusionist is around makes Mental Illusions more believeable too. The targets are not on guard.

 

 

Yep. That's something you want to keep hidden, because the knowledge getting out that you have illusion powers will undermine their effectiveness, as people would automatically assume it's an illusion.

 

[Doc Democracy]

There is lot going on here, and I think that is not unusual if you are throwing around 4-500 active points on a single power. :-)

 

I was looking at the builds and, while they all make some sense, there is an element of hand-waviness about much of it. I was thinking that it is almost like he has a vast number of slavishly devoted elves flying about ensuring things go right for him. Then I thought, why not build it that way. It gets around the trigger, reset type thing. What if four people act, in the same segment, to foil his plans? Can the teleport act four times in the same segment? Is it possible for a power to be making decisions about what it does?

 

If instead, the build was based around followers, invisible, intangible, representatives of his mind (if they are all mind-linked they can act as if they knew what he was thinking) that flock round him, steadying vases, moving obstacles, blocking doors and restraining hands. They would need affect solid on their STR but there is less stretch to the remit of the power. I think with 450 active points in play you will get enough of them to cover mist eventualities...

 

Doc

[Doc Democracy]

This might even be a great use for duplication where duplicates are not the same as the core character but shards of consciousness flaking off to deal with foreseen eventualities in the same invisible, intangible, affecting solid world manner....

 

Doc

[Demiurgos]

There is lot going on here, and I think that is not unusual if you are throwing around 4-500 active points on a single power. :-)

 

I was looking at the builds and, while they all make some sense, there is an element of hand-waviness about much of it. I was thinking that it is almost like he has a vast number of slavishly devoted elves flying about ensuring things go right for him. Then I thought, why not build it that way. It gets around the trigger, reset type thing. What if four people act, in the same segment, to foil his plans? Can the teleport act four times in the same segment? Is it possible for a power to be making decisions about what it does?

 

If instead, the build was based around followers, invisible, intangible, representatives of his mind (if they are all mind-linked they can act as if they knew what he was thinking) that flock round him, steadying vases, moving obstacles, blocking doors and restraining hands. They would need affect solid on their STR but there is less stretch to the remit of the power. I think with 450 active points in play you will get enough of them to cover mist eventualities...

 

Doc

 

Hmm... you're actually the second person to suggest something like this (not on here, of course). Someone else said something similar when I initially built the character.

 

I'm not sure how it would work combat-wise in HERO, because as I understand it, combat's done differently than what I'm accustomed to. I started with character creation since that's the very first thing you do in any RPG system, so I'm afraid I can't answer, as I don't know how you do combat yet. He has senses that work in conjunction with the power.

 

Danger Sense (immediate vicinity, any danger, Function as a Sense) 13-

 

Clairsentience (Spatial Awareness), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Targeting

 

Though multiple aspects of his mind would have 360 degree perception and notice any immediate danger in the vicinity.

 

 

This might even be a great use for duplication where duplicates are not the same as the core character but shards of consciousness flaking off to deal with foreseen eventualities in the same invisible, intangible, affecting solid world manner....

 

Doc

 

I like the idea of aspects of his consciousness dealing with things. It would have to be along the lines of representatives of his own mind/aspects of his own consciousness, because he's specifically a contrast to luck controllers whose powers do everything for them.

 

But how much would this be capable of doing? Because unlike the invisibility power, he does use this power in combat. Lizard Man man leaps at him, it Triggers Naught Shall Occur Save Whatso I Will, and Lizard Man is Grabbed and falls to the ground. TK can be used as a base effect that's just as capable of restraining someone as grabbing a falling vase. How physically strong would the duplicates be? Because he can lift and restrain more with the power than he can physically do himself.

[Hyper-Man]

Is this intended to be a PC or NPC?

[Doc Democracy]

If you were to do this, I think I would be paying extra for each duplicate to be different from the core character - you could then design them from the ground up.  It would work better in combat as each duplicate/follower would have their own allocation of actions during a round rather than everything having to work from the main characters actions.

 

Hyper-Man - i did not even think to question - with the points being thrown around I presumed an NPC, possibly a villain, possibly a third party who gets involved at times with their own agenda.

 

 

Doc

[Demiurgos]

Is this intended to be a PC or NPC?

 

Well, it certainly isn't a PC. That should be clear.

 

Though in my experience, what usually follows is, "Well, if it's an NPC, you don't have to sweat it, just have it do what you want and don't worry about statting it up."

 

Which defeats the whole purpose of purportedly being able to build "anything you can imagine" if the default answer is, "Don't worry about building it if it's an NPC." In no system one may care to name, does it not list any stats for NPCs in their published material (and most if not all published characters will be NPCs, because it's up to the players to make their characters they're going to play as, but most GMs aren't going to want to build every single character from scratch), saying, "Don't worry about it. Do it how you want."

[Hyper-Man]

I only asked because the answer determines whether Real or Active points are more important.  In the case of an NPC that means Active points.  And while I also dislike 'not worrying about statting it up' I do acknowledge that not all GM's are going to be willing or able go into the same level of detail in making their NPC,s in the same way that many players can.  As a result it's far more important define effects and defenses to said effects when building NPC's than it is to get the costs right. 

 

HM

[Demiurgos]

If you were to do this, I think I would be paying extra for each duplicate to be different from the core character - you could then design them from the ground up.

 

Altered Duplicates, then?

 

 

 It would work better in combat as each duplicate/follower would have their own allocation of actions during a round rather than everything having to work from the main characters actions.

 

But then wouldn't they be limited to whenever their turn is? Trigger makes something happen whenever the Triggering condition takes place, but characters can only go whenever their turn is, in which case it's possible that nothing's happened yet or that something's already happened, and it's too late to do anything about it. He's able to take on teams because the Trigger activates even when it isn't his turn, which counteracts the fact that he can only make one action to the team's 4-5 or however many members there are. (Of course, this is assuming it works the same way in HERO.)

 

I'm just trying to understand how it differs from someone who just has a bunch of minions, aside from the invisibility and intangibility.

[Hyper-Man]

Altered Duplicates, then?

...

 

I'm just trying to understand how it differs from someone who just has a bunch of minions, aside from the invisibility and intangibility.

 

It wouldn't differ mechanically.  The special effect is completely different.  Those 2 thing do not always match up in Hero which is a feature rather than a flaw when used correctly.

 

HM

[Doc Democracy]

It all depends on how many duplicates you have.

 

In HERO, each character buys how many actions they get in a 12 second turn (their speed). There is a question in my mind that, even if you have trigger whether your telekinesis would attend to, for example three heroes attacking you on the same segment of a turn, they would, in effect, overload the power.

 

If you had five duplicates hanging around, each with for or five actions each, then it would be very difficult for a team to overload in the same way. Obviously, each duplicate would not always be able to act instantly but it is likely there would always be one with an action available. It would require many more heroes to overload the power and, the more duplicates you have, the more difficult overloading would become.

 

Doc

[Demiurgos]

21 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

It all depends on how many duplicates you have.

 

In HERO, each character buys how many actions they get in a 12 second turn (their speed). There is a question in my mind that, even if you have trigger whether your telekinesis would attend to, for example three heroes attacking you on the same segment of a turn, they would, in effect, overload the power.

 

If you had five duplicates hanging around, each with for or five actions each, then it would be very difficult for a team to overload in the same way. Obviously, each duplicate would not always be able to act instantly but it is likely there would always be one with an action available. It would require many more heroes to overload the power and, the more duplicates you have, the more difficult overloading would become.

 

Doc

The reasoning makes sense, and I was looking at it, and it would fit within both the character and power concept.

In comics, Iceman can split his consciousness among ice clones, and Clayface can do the same with clay. JoJo's Bizarre Adventures has Stands, manifestations of psychic energy, which are invisible to anyone except other Stand users but can interact with objects, are intangible, and invulnerable to harm except against other Stands. So there's precedence among other fictional characters, but this specific use would preserve its uniqueness.

Each split consciousness Duplicate would be Mind Linked with himself and each other, so that when he Foresees something, the Duplicates would be able to act on that information. Five is a good starting number, as with him facing forward at 12 o'clock, he could have one at his 10 o'clock, one at his 2 o'clock, one at his 8 o'clock, one at his 4 o'clock, and one at his six. So all directions would be covered, and it would preserve the idea of it covering a radius. All of the Mind Linked Duplicates would provide him with Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees). One wouldn't be able to sneak up on him. If he was confronted with a single individual with superstrength rather than a team of superhumans, he could have more than one of the Duplicates combine to restrain him. And Held Actions could be used to have them respond to a specific occurrence to counterattack.

The only thing I see is that Duplicates have to take a Segment to orient himself, but as I haven't gotten to combat yet, I don't know how that would be. So he couldn't instantly split his consciousness into a Duplicate, but would have to do it before he needed it. But the more I thought about it, the more I saw your point. Thank you. I think I will build it like that. I think I'll try rebuilding it that way for the initial build as well, and try it out.

So in HERO I guess it would be:

Naught Shall Occur Save Whatso I Will:  Duplication (creates 5 450-point Duplicates), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (370 Active Points)

So that actually costs less than the AoE TK did, not that price is a concern. It seems 430 Active Points would get 300 duplicates, which is far more than is needed for the power's concept. Then the Invisibility, Desolidification and Mind Link would be listed on the character sheet of the Duplicates.

 

 

[Doc Democracy]

It would be worth you building those duplicates to see if you need 450 points.  They are going to be pretty one-dimensional as they are, after all, simply shards of a central consciousness and not going to be doing much beyond a responsive role.  You might find that they need OCV/DCV and STR (advantaged to work while intangible), SPD, invisibility, intangibility and then some awareness skills and senses.  HERO separates out the various ways of attacking etc, have you thought of whether this power would affect opponents that were using abilities unknown to your NPC?  say a mentalist was attacking using funky psionic abilities.  Would the power have some effect against that?  If so, you would need these soul shards to be able to notice the attack, defend against it and hit back.

Doc

[Lucius]

That Didn't Happen:  (Total: 80 Active Cost, 65 Real Cost) Extra-Dimensional Movement (Related Group of Dimensions, Single Location), Move from this world to a world where THAT did not happen., Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (50 Active Points) (Real Cost: 50) <b>plus</b> Danger Sense (immediate vicinity, any danger) (30 Active Points); Limited Power Only for use with Trigger for Extradim Move (-1) 11- (Real Cost: 15)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Extra Dimensional Palindromedary

[Demiurgos]

11 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

It would be worth you building those duplicates to see if you need 450 points. 

 

It actually doesn't look like it after starting a new Hero Designer file for it. Doesn't look like it'll take anywhere near that many points. So far I've got:

 

Power

Desolidification, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (80 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)

Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Linked (Desolidification; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/2)

Life Support (Self-Contained Breathing) (10 Active Points); Linked (Desolidification; Lesser Power can only be used when character uses greater Power at full value; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/2)

Affects Physical World (+2) (32 Active Points) applied to STR

+0 DEX, Affects Physical World (+2*)

Mind Link, Human class of minds, Specific Group of Minds, Number of Minds (x8)

 

Though as far as Life Support goes, his consciousness actually wouldn't need anything as far as breathing, food, water, etc., since it's the physical body it inhabits that requires it.

 

11 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

They are going to be pretty one-dimensional as they are, after all, simply shards of a central consciousness and not going to be doing much beyond a responsive role. 

 

Which is as it should be, as it's preventive, not causative. There's a reason which Desolidification is a stop sign power. It would be highly likely to abused in the hands of a PC. Even as far as NPCs in the comics, Shadow King is the only one that immediately comes to mind who is Desolidified and has a complete offensive arsenal.

 

One thing I was curious about, for the fine work modeled with the Fine Manipulation adder on the Telekinesis, like locking a door since TK is "inherently clumsy" (5ER 229), a Duplicate could do any fine work necessary. But since a Desolidified character needs Affects Physical World to interact with physical reality, I was going to apply it to DEX, but HERO Designer says it's actually an Unavailable Advantage for that because it's only for things that affect others. I force added it, but it seems it would be correct to apply Affects Physical World to DEX to do any precision work since you can't actually interact with the physical world without it.