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Thor: Ragnarok spoiler thread


Bazza

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So, they established that Hela drew her power from Asgard.

 

Destroy Asgard, take down Hela. Makes sense.

 

But they also stated that Thor draws his power from Asgard.

 

So, has he been reduced in power now?

 

That'd be a disappointment right after he figures out that he doesn't need the hammer.

 

And if the "Asgard is the people" refrain is to be used as an out, then that raises questions such as, why didn't they kill the people to de-power Hela instead of the floating space rock? Or, why did Hela have so much power after losing the support (or never having, really) of the people?

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5 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

So, they established that Hela drew her power from Asgard.

 

Destroy Asgard, take down Hela. Makes sense.

 

But they also stated that Thor draws his power from Asgard.

 

So, has he been reduced in power now?

 

That'd be a disappointment right after he figures out that he doesn't need the hammer.

 

And if the "Asgard is the people" refrain is to be used as an out, then that raises questions such as, why didn't they kill the people to de-power Hela instead of the floating space rock? Or, why did Hela have so much power after losing the support (or never having, really) of the people?

 

That has bugged me too. 

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And if the "Asgard is the people" refrain is to be used as an out, then that raises questions such as, why didn't they kill the people to de-power Hela instead of the floating space rock? Or, why did Hela have so much power after losing the support (or never having, really) of the people?

 

Meh, that's just one of those "OK we lost everything but we still have family" things that people say.

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11 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

And if the "Asgard is the people" refrain is to be used as an out, then that raises questions such as, why didn't they kill the people to de-power Hela instead of the floating space rock? Or, why did Hela have so much power after losing the support (or never having, really) of the people?

 

Are you seriously suggesting killing the Asgardians as any kind of solution? That's so screwed up I really don't have words.

 

(Edit: okay, "rhetorical". But pretty clumsily framed for such.)

 

As far as support of the people goes... I kind of got the impression that wasn't really required as much as control of them. And she seemed to be more than happy to use the dead ones anyway.

 

Thor's not a Doug. Hulk didn't kill him.

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OK, I tried to get the ball rolling on a discussion of the biggest question I was left with from the film, but you all seem to be fixated on accusing me of genocidal thoughts, so I'm just going to skip to the part where I give my thoughts on the subject.

 

Here's what we're given at the end of the movie:

 

1. Hela is too strong.

2. She draws her power from Asgard.

3. We must unleash Surtur to destroy Asgard and deprive Hela of her power source.

 

That's the plan. It's pretty straightforward.

 

BUT, earlier in the movie were are told:

 

Thor also draws his power from Asgard.

 

Logic tells us that if you destroy Asgard, this will also affect Thor.

 

The movie does not give us information on Thor's status in this regard. After the destruction of Asgard, he isn't seen doing anything more strenuous than having a conversation and sitting in a chair.

 

So, what possibilities are there?

 

First Theory: Asgard is the people. In which case Thor is unaffected by the destruction of the physical location of Asgard and retains his previously shown power levels. Some considerations for this theory:

 

1. Hela would likewise be unaffected, since the place was destroyed and not the people.

2. This raises the question of how Hela draws power from the people of Asgard, vs. the place being imbued with power.

     a. She's a Death goddess, but she only shows control over the dead when using the Eternal Flame. So, drawing power from Asgard's dead probably isn't a viable explanation.

     b. She's not a very positive death goddess. She's not someone who ushers old dogs over the Rainbow Bridge. If anything, she's the scary side of Death, the grim reaper, etc. So, plausible that she draws power from Asgard through feeding on the fear of Asgardians.

        i. Odin seems to have raised Thor to be the counterbalance to Hela, so it would jibe that he draws power by inspiring hope and positive feelings in the Asgardian people.

 

So, the "Asgard is the people" theory could work. It makes blowing up the place Asgard more of a delaying tactic, and raises the question of why Hela is so strong before even getting to Asgard.

 

Second Theory: Odin didn't tell the whole story. Perhaps the floating land of Asgard is a repository for the Odinforce, and breaking it deprives Hela access, but Thor doesn't need the rock to access the Odinforce. Low probability of anything Odinforce involved in the MCU, IMO. They haven't mentioned it up until now and it doesn't seem like the sort of thing they want to get into.

 

Third Theory: Thor did get depowered, and is now operating at the same level as any other elite Asgardian warrior -- which is still pretty impressive. Perhaps he goes into retirement from the superhero life to rule Asgard and later decides to make a new hammer and empower the next generation of Thor? Possible.

 

I personally think they're going to go something to do with "Asgard is the people," mainly because that's the only thing they gave us in the movie. Second one is "Odin didn't tell Thor everything," because it's a recurring theme.

 

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All good thoughts.

 

My impression is that all statements are basically true. Asgard is primarily its people, and Thor's power probably draws from them, but it's also a powerful mythic place and that has to have some effect. In myth Thor has fertility aspects and is strongly associated with farming and prosperity. Hela as a death goddess is probably not so much empowered by the living, and is likely drawing power from the place. I agree that Thor may well have been set up as a deliberate counterbalance to Hela by Odin.

 

Surtur was unleashed to both destroy Asgard and Hela. We never got to see the effect of what his destruction of Asgard had on her, since he destroyed her first.

 

Here's a thought - maybe Odin shifted his own power source from the old ways (place) to a new way (people)?

 

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11 minutes ago, mrinku said:

Here's a thought - maybe Odin shifted his own power source from the old ways (place) to a new way (people)?

 

I'm thinking something along those lines may be an option, though one that might require too much screen time for them to attempt. I'm thinking we'll get a simpler version of "Asgard is the people," or not see it addressed directly.

 

I strongly suspect that Hela is going to simply drift in space until some powerful malevolent being (Thanos) senses her and swings by to pick her up. ETA: Though they may not try to shoehorn her into Infinity War. But I don't think we've seen the last of her. Too much awesome to waste there.

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Hela stepping in for Mistress Death in regard to Thanos is something that occurred to me already.

 

No reason why she couldn't be his original inspiration. If this Thanos has been around long enough, they may even have crossed paths.

 

Having said that, I'd not like to see them as a team. It'd be sufficient for her to be the ideal he wishes to sacrifice the universe to.

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On 19.11.2017 at 1:55 PM, Pattern Ghost said:

So, they established that Hela drew her power from Asgard.

 

Destroy Asgard, take down Hela. Makes sense.

 

But they also stated that Thor draws his power from Asgard.

 

So, has he been reduced in power now?

 

That'd be a disappointment right after he figures out that he doesn't need the hammer.

 

And if the "Asgard is the people" refrain is to be used as an out, then that raises questions such as, why didn't they kill the people to de-power Hela instead of the floating space rock? Or, why did Hela have so much power after losing the support (or never having, really) of the people?

"Home is where the heart is".

For Hela, Asgard (the place) was a sources of Power. Her entire army - with the exception of Scourge - was her own power augmented by closeness to the place. The people were irrelevant, unless she wanted something (like the sword).

 

For Thor and Odin - even Loki and Scourge - Asgard was a Culture, a ideal, the People. The place was irrelevant. Even the power the place may have granted was irrelevant.

 

When we saw Thor fight, he had already been away from Asgard for some time. So we can asume the Arena fight is close ot his "weakened" state.

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I just want to acknowledge that Cate Blanchett absolutely nailed the role of Hela. She was completely convincing as someone with great power and confidence and came across as every bit as threatening and dangerous as she was supposed to be. IMO, she also looked damned good doing it. I found it impressive that she was able to project both "oozing sexy" and "oh hell no, I'm not going near that" at the same time. Mad props to her screen presence and acting ability.

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I saw this last night.  It did not suck.  I do wish the trailers hadn't given half the movie away, but at least it didn't give the entire movie away the way so many trailers do nowadays.

 

The biggest problem with Thor just buying off the OIF from Mjolnir is the conversion from HKA to RKA.  For that you need more of a rad accident.  The munchkin in me cringes, because if you already have so many points dumped into STR, why would you not use a physical ranged attack that could add STR damage?

 

This movie had less Double Knockback than JL, but way more Armor Piercing.

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