limitation that caps characteristic power

[wick]

I want to build a Focus that adds to strength but does not increase it above a certain value. What limitation would I put  on it and how much is it worth? Ex: powered exoskeleton that grants +15 STR but caps out at 30 STR.

 

What about if the hero had to use the strength built for the power and could not add their own. Say a magic amulet that makes you 30 STR regardless of your strength before using the focus?

[Steve Long]

Since these are "how to" questions rather than rules questions, I've moved this to the Discussion board where anyone can provide answers and helpful advice.

[Doc Democracy]

What you have here is a limitation that is conditional.  What you , as GM, need to consider is how often that limits.

 

If the vast majority of people that use it do not have 30 STR then it barely limits at all.  If there are multiple examples of folk with STR 25 or 30 then it becomes more severely limiting...

 

it is going to be heavily genre and game specific.

[DasBroot]

The first one is pretty straightforward:  Limited Power: Maximum strength of 30. As for how much it's worth... I would say no more than -1/4 (perhaps even 0).

 

The reasoning behind the 0 is simple - if a character buys this power then why would they buy it to pass the 30? Even if you apply a -1/4 it's cheaper for a 20 str character to buy a +10 version of this harness instead.  (Barely. Which is why it seriously shouldn't be more than a quarter - lest you get sheningans like buying +15 strength that actually only gives you 10 but because it limits you to 10 is cheaper than just buying 10.  That's not cool.)

 

If it's on some sort of universal focus so it can be passed around then it's ALSO not particularly limiting to the person who paid for the focus in the first place to only be giving +5 or 10 strength to exceptionally strong team members.  Once again presumably he gets the full +15 out of it and he's who it was bought for:  he shouldn't get much of a rebate for avoiding Usable by Others by passing out his Universal focus as needed.

 

The second is trickier but is basically bought the same way (but at +20 str instead so even a 10 str character gets a 30) - unless it can lower someones strength to 30. (at which point it's a Supress and either a) should be bought as one if you want to use it offensively or b ) shouldn't be worth anything more than Hulk saying 'ugh. Don't loan me that amulet again. That was terrible.' out of combat.

 

 

 

 

[Sean Waters]

Hmm.  First one first...

 

The problem here is that you want to apply a single solution to several different builds.

 

Ask yourself this: if a character had 15 STR then how much would it cost to get to 30 STR?  Easy - 15 points

 

Now ask yourself the same thing but for a character with 20 STR: it would then cost 10 points.

 

You don't want to build it with a limitation, that is not a fair way to do it - you want to build it with a different cost depending on who is using it, if you are in a game where you have to pay points for your magic items and whatnot: if you are not, if they are just equipment, then it does not matter much, but you can still look at it this way:

 

The only base STR that would allow you to get to 30 STR with +15 without wasting points is 15 STR.  If you have 15 STR or less then you will get the full advantage of the extra 15 STR so you get no cost break.  For characters that have more than 15 STR what the magic item does is provide less of a benefit, so you have to know how common STR over 15 is.

 

If someone has 20 STR, for example, then they are only getting the benefit of 10 of the 15 points of added STR, or 2/3 of the 'full' benefit, which is the equivalent of a -1/2 limitation (although Hero generally as Hugh Neilson recently observed, tends to undervalue limitation values and not give them a precise mathematical  value).

 

In fact it still has some utility even then because you can be drained of 5 points of STR and still be at 30 STR. 

 

What cost break would you get for Extra Characteristic (only to counter adjustment powers)? -1?  -2?  Say it is -2, even that 5 points of STR you are not getting the advantage of is worth 2 points (1 2/3 rounds up), which is nearly half of the 5 you spend on it.

 

If this is a game where character STR does not routinely exceed 20 I probably would not give it any cost break at all, so, basically, what DasBroot said.

 

 

[Sean Waters]

The second one - I'm going to assume it does not reduce your STR if your STR is over 30 - is (effectively) buying 30* STR and not being able to use your own STR.  Again you could work this out precisely for a given character, which is how I would do it - in my world a magic item would 'cost' more for one character than another.

 

If you do not like that then work out what your average game STR is (let us say 15, for argument sake) and deduct that from 30: you get 15 in that instance, which would indicate that it is a -1 limitation on 30 STR: again Hero tends to undervalue limitations so it might only get a -1/2 in practice.  This is not 'fair' - it gives a bigger advantage to weaker characters but it is one approach you could take, if you did not want different costs for different characters, and players are generally not stupid - they will distribute items for maximum benefit.

 

I know you may not want to do this for some reason, but it is far easier to just give a straight bonus to characteristics.

 

 

*I'm assuming that, even if a small child puts on the gauntlets of ogre power amulet, that child gains a STR of 30.

[massey]

Honestly, I'd make it a -0 limitation.  The primary character is paying for the benefit that he gets.  So he's got a 15 Str, + 15 more with the armor/amulet/whatever.  That's what he pays for.  Then you simply define it (with a -0 limitation) as only providing a max of 30 Str.  It doesn't matter if it's a friend who tries to use it, or an enemy who takes it away from you, the max they can get is 30.

 

I'd even allow you to define it that it always provides a 30 Str.  Same deal.  Vinnie the Snitch, who is Str 8, steals your focus and suddenly he's a 30 Str.  Or your elderly maid, Mrs Gribblesworth, can put it on and now she's Str 30.

 

Costs are important to the person who buys the power.  He has to pay for the benefits the power gives to him.  Other people didn't pay for it, so cost balancing isn't nearly as important.  The character doesn't have to pay extra just in case somebody who is not him steals the armor.

[dsatow]

Personally, I would just make it a 30 STR TK with no range(-1/2), no push(-1/4).

[Ninja-Bear]

Good question! Just thinking about the same thing myself!

[Ninja-Bear]

10 minutes ago, dsatow said:

Personally, I would just make it a 30 STR TK with no range(-1/2), no push(-1/4).

Was just thinking about this type of build.

[Ninja-Bear]

FWIW, I feel that a -1/4 lim is fine.

[Lucius]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, wick said:

I want to build a Focus that adds to strength but does not increase it above a certain value. What limitation would I put  on it and how much is it worth? Ex: powered exoskeleton that grants +15 STR but caps out at 30 STR.

 

What about if the hero had to use the strength built for the power and could not add their own. Say a magic amulet that makes you 30 STR regardless of your strength before using the focus?

 

First case: A small Limitation, perhaps only -0.

 

2nd case: This is an example of the Lockout Limitation. The Power is effectively "locking out" the character's normal STR.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

3rd case: contains a palindromedary cleverly folded up

[mrinku]

You could also build the exoskeleton as a vehicle.

 

As powers, I agree... -0 or -¼ depending on context.

 

If you want an amulet of 30 STR regardless of user STR, buy 30 STR (NOT +STR) with lockout on the user's own STR, as Lucius suggests.

 

Amulet of 1.6E6g Lift: 30 STR (30pts); Lockout Own STR (-½); OIF (-½); 15pts

 

The Lockout offsets having to pay for the STR you already have, which does feel about right for -½.

[dsatow]

7 minutes ago, mrinku said:

You could also build it as a vehicle.

Or a follower.  I remember of build of Captain America where Steve Rogers is just a DNPC for the shield. 

[Ninja-Bear]

Really if real weapon is worth -1/4 than what you want should be the same.