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iamlibertarian

Transforming polluted water to clean water

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It's an EcoWarrior character kind of question.

Transforming air or nothingness into water is a Major Transform, at about 4L water per body. But what if the idea was to transform dirty water into clean?

 

Would it be a Minor Transform or a Cosmetic one?

 

Or would it still be a Major Transform, but since the water must already be present, would it just be more water per BODY?

 

The idea I have in mind is some sort of Focused filtering system with Transform being Constant, Persistent, and have 0 END.

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It might depend on how big an impact it's going to be on the game . . . if clean water is scarce, I'd probably go with Minor.  Otherwise, I'd think it would simply be Cosmetic.

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7 minutes ago, Rails said:

It might depend on how big an impact it's going to be on the game . . . if clean water is scarce, I'd probably go with Minor.  Otherwise, I'd think it would simply be Cosmetic.

 

Probably not a big impact... It is more of a 'behind the scenes' or 'background story' thing. Thanks!

So I assume that the same could be said for an air cleaner... IF I used Transform. Now that I think about it, Change Environment might be better for air... or sterilizing an area... hmmmmm...

Though wait...Change Environment...doesn't it HAVE to have some sort of negative impact on someone?

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Then would it just be better maybe to make it Major, and if I do pay for Major, would it likely just process more water if said water was less polluted? Or would it still only process the same volume of water regardless of pollution in your opinion?

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That was my leaning as well.  I suppose in the case of water, if I wanted the character to clean a polluted lake, a stationary area, Change Environment might work fine (unless something negative really is supposed to be produced by that power). But to provide a steady source, Transform just seems more appropriate. So I guess the same would be true for an ongoing air cleaner.

 

Thanks :)

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I agree, its a minor transform.  Its not major, because that's more like creation of water out of nothing.  Its not cosmetic, because that's a small change in sensory appearance rather than character and content.  With Cosmetic you can make polluted water appear clean with cosmetic, but its still polluted.

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I'd treat making things safe to drink as minor, but it would depend on the situation. 

 

As for the amount, I would use 6e2p172 for unliving objects and correlate with weight of water (1l of water equals ~1kg see https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/subsection1_4_2_0_7.html).

So transforming 8 body of water would yield 200l of water.

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I'd consider using Life Support.

 

Purify Water:  (Total: 6 Active Cost, 3 Real Cost) Life Support  (Immunity: Waterborne Pollutants/Contaminants), Area Of Effect (4m Radius; +1/4), Usable Nearby (+3/4), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used (6 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 3)

 

This would purify all the water in a 4 meter radius and make it safe to drink.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I can purify a palindromedary's water but I can't make it drink

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Not sure that scans, Lucius. You appear to be making the water (and anything in radius) immune to pollutants rather than removing the pollutants. If the grantor is stunned, for example, the power switches off and the water is filthy again. Life Support doesn't change the toxic environment, just allows someone to not be affected by it.

 

This build is fine for allowing targets to drink foul water safely, though.

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Mrinku I believe you have over thought Lucius build. First I really don’t see the issue with using LS as removing pollutants that’s just the SFX. Second unless granting a power is automatically a constant power requiring END, he already covered the cost.

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Life Support doesn't change anything except for allowing the people affected by it to not suffer ill effects. That build does not change the air, it does not change the water.  It allows anyone in the area to not be bothered by the pollutants in the water.  They're still there, just nobody in that area is bothered by it.  If you took a cup full of that water and carried it outside the LS area, it would be just as polluted.

 

Special Effects don't trump game mechanics.  It doesn't matter if you define your flight as rockets of flame, you cannot use them to knock out your opponent, its flight not a blast.  If you define your resistant protection as gravity manipulation, that doesn't let you fall slower.  Its not flight, its resistant protection.

 

Life Support does not change the environment, it allows people to tolerate the environment.

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3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Special Effects don't trump game mechanics.  It doesn't matter if you define your flight as rockets of flame, you cannot use them to knock out your opponent, its flight not a blast.  If you define your resistant protection as gravity manipulation, that doesn't let you fall slower.  Its not flight, its resistant protection.

 

Just first off, I agree with you that mechanics trump special effects.  That being said, one can use the Power Skill to do what you describe once or twice (just not frequently).  

 

One last way to make polluted water drinkable (though technically a stretch), is a Drain against Pollutants/Poisons.  Though a Minor Transform is probably the cheapest and best way.

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50 minutes ago, Ninja-Bear said:

Christopher Taylor one of main tenants of Hero system is that YOU choose the special effect then you build the power to the effect. So yes SFX trumps.

I'm not sure the tenet of SFX choice before power construction indicates SFX trumps mechanics.  i.e. The order of operations doesn't necessarily indicate which of the operations (SFX choice versus mechanical choice) has precedence (aka higher importance).  Rather, the order of operations simply helps inform one's choices about which mechanics might apply ... when selecting among multiple mechanics that might be used to skin the proverbial SFX cat.

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The example on p7 of CC (which is in line with similar examples of "how to build a power" in all editions) goes:

  1. Choose the Special Effect
  2. Decide the game effect
  3. Put it together

In practical terms you can do it the other way around, but HERO does abhor a naked power. ("How does it work?" "Dunno. It just does.") You should have some idea of how those powers come together during character conception.

 

Special Effects aren't window dressing - they inform power builds, are critical to the interplay of Vulnerabilities and Powers, and suggest creative power uses.

 

However, I agree to some extent with Christopher as well - once special effect tricks move out of clever use and into mimicking actual modifiers, it's time to apply those modifiers. Although keep in mind what can be done using maneuvers... someone with Blast (fire) can Spread it for minor AoE effects if it hasn't been bought with Beam, and if you can Bounce an attack you can use that instead of Indirect. Haymaker might cover a "Finishing Move" overload (especially if pushed).

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