Stretching and Neck as Limb

[Ninja-Bear]

I’m curious how fellow Heoites feel about allow the neck to considered a limb for stretching purposes. I know for martialmaneuvers it is considered a limb. I’m thinking the use would be for a classic elastic guy to poke his head around corners or a few meters away (limited of course by stretching bought.)

[Surrealone]

Sure!  Just buy Extra Limbs (so you can treat it as an actual limb, meaning grab things with it (wrap around), etc.) and Stretching.  

 

Just be wary of mooks using Choke Hold against you, as a longer neck should make you a bit easier to grab by the neck and choke ... unless the character doesn't have a wind pipe carrying air down the neck like humans do.

[mrinku]

If you're not going to use your neck to grab things and are just stretching your neck to put your head in places, regular Stretching is fine under 6e. You won't need to buy Extra Limbs unless you're using your neck to grab stuff as well. Stretching your neck so that you can bite something is also inherent.

 

A stretcher can do anything with their mouth that a normal person can (and more, but that's getting into Mister Flexible territory...)

[Ninja-Bear]

Surreal one, good call on the xtra limb to grab something with the neck!

[DasBroot]

I'm not so sure on this.  I think I remember reading a ruling here that you actually can't 'look around corners' with stretching - under the rule that if there's a more expensive way to do something in hero you should take it (a highly limited clairvoyance, in this case).  

 

I think it's clear the power isn't *intended* to allow you to change your perception point:

 

Quote

Allows a character to stretch his body, increase his Reach to make HTH attacks at a distance, and reach for things that are a long distance away from him. Examples include a fantastic superhero with a malleable body, a weapon with long Reach, or a robot with telescoping arms.

 

Everything example there after 'stretch his body' talks about hand to hand and physical things - it doesn't even increase run speed by Stretching your legs, for example : you can reach out/up and grab something and then pull yourself to it, but the Stilt-Man effect isn't *stretching*, per se - it's Running with a Stretching special effect (and, if you can step over trucks or small buildings while moving forward, an argument could be made for Leaping with Accurate, Stretching SFX instead). 

 

Changing your perception point is a big thing in the rules (with multiple adders or powers that do it) so I think they'd mention it if they intended a character to be able to go 'up, periscope' and look over a building.

[Surrealone]

DasBroot,

I have to disagree on this one.  Key to this is that Clairsentience changes ONLY the perception point ... in a way that is inherently NOT visible to observers unless a limitation is taken on it.  i.e. It's a disjointed form of perception ... that has inherently indirect and IPE properties.  That's not what Ninja-Bear is after -- i.e. he's not trying to move his perception point (and only his perception point).  Moreover, if he did build out with Clairsentience ... and was using it to look around a corner ... and took the limitations appropriate to make it visible to observers, only have a very limited range, etc -- then if someone attacked that perception point (SFX being his stretched head/neck) ... what would happen?  Technically there's nothing there to attack (disjoint perception point, remember?) ... and it's not a limb ... or a part of the body.  Let's say you further limited clairsentience to reflect that it crosses intervening space ... now you've got so many limitations heaped on it that the cost is probably lower than you imagine ... and you're beginning to simulate an existing power or powers (i.e. Extra Limbs and Stretching).

 

Buying both Extra Limbs (Neck) and Stretching seems to avoid all of that wonkiness.  I think it's cleaner and more appropriate, and if I were a GM for a campaign for which Ninja-Bear was building, it's what I'd recommend.

 

[vhoffmann]

From the Advanced Player's Guide I, page 117.

 

Quote

A character with Stretching can probably Stretch his neck (and thus his head) around a corner to perceive things, but he can’t Stretch individual sensory organs such as just his eyes or just his ears. If he wants the ability to do that, he can buy it as a “Stretching trick” using a Limited form of Clairsentience, or perhaps the Adjacent Sense Modifier.

 

[mrinku]

Aside from anything else, most characters in the comics with general stretching (Plastic Man, Elongated Man, Mister Fantastic) do this trick. I realise that's hardly proof positive, but  it's important.

 

Worth noting that your overall stretching total is limited - if you stretch your neck 3m that's three metres less you can also stretch your arm.

 

The CC entry at least does not limit stretching to limbs:

 

"At its base level, Stretching only lets a character make parts of his body longer." (CC.p85)

[dsatow]

IMHO, I would allow it however, I would warn the player that it would be visible as a head on a stick/rope look.  I wouldn't allow stretching eyes out of their sockets though.

[IndianaJoe3]

6 hours ago, vhoffmann said:

From the Advanced Player's Guide I, page 117.

 

 

 

Yeah, stretching your neck around a corner is precisely what the Adjacent modifier is for.

[dsatow]

I can take it any longer...

 

This thread is really putting your neck out for all those elastic people.

 

Someone pun-ish me.

[Ninja-Bear]

Surreal one I figure if I went with the clairsentence route, I would put on physical manifestion limitation on it to represent the neck.

[Surrealone]

Sure, but then you might as well have an Extra Limb with Stretching, since you've basically constructed a power to simulate exactly that.  Less filling, tastes great...  plus I seem to recall RAW verbiage somewhere about not using one power to build what another one already does.  Can't quite place where or what the exact verbiage is; but I'm sure someone will round it up or correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Crusher Bob]

Asked that exact question here.

[Ninja-Bear]

Thanks for the link Crusher Bob!

[Ninja-Bear]

I just always wondered why clairsentece is used for peeking around corners. I would think that some sort of enhanced modifier would be more appropriate.

[Doc Democracy]

I think that this is just another example of where the power name infers SFX.  It should be called something technical and boring like Changing point of perspective.

 

That describes what clairsentience does, moving that point of perspective in space or time.  Steve's answer is right in that if you want to affect the game then you do that in a variety of mechanical ways.  The mechanics are all in the powers in the book and the SFX come after that with the requisite advantages and limitations applied to properly reflect how it looks to everyone else.

 

Doc

[Surrealone]

14 hours ago, Crusher Bob said:

Asked that exact question here.

Excellent re-posting of that link.  Thank you for that.

[mrinku]

I'd also point out that stretching your torso and/or legs can produce the same result (head around the corner).

 

Clairsentience might be needed for slipping your ear under a door to hear what's going on better.

[Tom Cowan]

or

+5 PER with Normal Hearing (5 Active Points); Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4)

rather then Clairsentience

[Ninja-Bear]

I think though too that this is a great example of power skill roll. Elastikick wants to peek around a corner but doesn’t have it bought as a power.  As a GM, I would allow it.  Now Elastikick want to do it more often, now it time to pony up some points.

[mrinku]

Well, I still say it's a normal part of Stretching's ability to ""make parts of his body longer", and that a neck should be treated the same as an arm or torso in this regard.

 

For me the fact that it makes little game difference if you stretch your torso or neck (or some combination) to place your head around a corner is the decider.

 

We all agree that to do anything other than just make your neck longer (such as a neck grab or sticking your ear through a keyhole) will require other powers.

[Ninja-Bear]

12 hours ago, mrinku said:

Well, I still say it's a normal part of Stretching's ability to ""make parts of his body longer", and that a neck should be treated the same as an arm or torso in this regard.

 

For me the fact that it makes little game difference if you stretch your torso or neck (or some combination) to place your head around a corner is the decider.

 

We all agree that to do anything other than just make your neck longer (such as a neck grab or sticking your ear through a keyhole) will require other powers.

I see your point which is why I asked the question to begin with because that is how I felt. The more rhough that I chew through Steve Long’s answer though, I think buying the sense as a Power is more consistent with Hero philosophy of you get what you pay for. I could see though in the wrong group people start saying well if you get that for free shouldn’t I get this for free due to my special effect/Power?

[mrinku]

In this case, my opinion is that you DO get what you pay for - the ability to stretch parts of your body.

 

Put it this way, is there any doubt that you can stretch your legs to stick your head above a wall and have a look? No.

 

Is there any doubt that you can stretch your torso to put your head above a wall to take a look? No.

 

Stretching your neck instead to do the same damn thing is not getting an ability you didn't pay for. And it's NOT Clairsentience any more than stretching out to Grab something is Telekinesis.

 

And overall Stretching total is still limited to what you bought. Stretching your arms at the same time may prevent a neck stretch.

[Surrealone]

9 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I could see though in the wrong group people start saying well if you get that for free shouldn’t I get this for free due to my special effect/Power?

Avoid those sorts because mrinku is correct, you -did- pay (with Extra Limbs and Stretching).  Problem solved.

 

I think where Extra Limbs w/ Stretching stops making sense is when you go from wanting to stretch short distances to grab something, 'take a peek' etc. ... to wanting to stretch really long distances just to look atound.  The latter scenario is where I think Clairsentience (with appropriate limitations) begins to make more sense ... because at that point it is less about using the neck to accomplish a grab or looksee nearby ... and instead, stretch a long way just to take a look.

 

i.e. I think both approaches have their place ... each for a given set of use cases.