Christopher Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 I seriously still do not get the issue. 3 Characters, 1 corner: This character walks around the corner to use his Eyebeams. Reduces cover to 0 This character leans around the corner so his head is visible to use his Eyebeams. Reduces cover to X This character has stretchign, stretches his neck so his head is around to corner, to use his Eyebeams. Reduces cover to X as well. X is based on how cover/hit locations work. And a minor detail. It is the same X for Character 2+3. Eyebeams? Point of original rule for powers. Plain as that. But what does Character 3 get on character 2, that makes this whole discussion relevant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted December 31, 2017 Report Share Posted December 31, 2017 Oh just found the official rule on head/neck as a limb when looking at grabs: 6e2p65 Quote TARGETABLE LIMBS Characters are considered to have five limbs: two arms, two legs, and one head. (The head counts as a limb because a character can use it to attack [i.e., headbutt] an opponent close enough to Grab him.) The standard Grab, attacks defined as joint-locks, and similar attacks normally Grab one to two limbs; “pins” and bearhug-type holds, such as those used in wrestling, may Grab three or more limbs. A character can always choose to Grab fewer limbs than the maximum allowed by his maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 12:41 PM, dsatow said: Oh just found the official rule on head/neck as a limb when looking at grabs: 6e2p65 Please show me where it says 'neck' within the text you quoted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 The head area includes the neck. No other hit location come close to the neck in either description or damage effect. But how about this for more evidence for the argument to stretch the neck. pg 187 of FHC notes the effect of disabling the head. Item 6 is Limb Impaired. pg 117 of the APG "A character with Stretching can probably Stretch his neck (and thus his head) around a corner to perceive things, but he can’t Stretch individual sensory organs such as just his eyes or just his ears. If he wants the ability to do that, he can buy it as a “Stretching trick” using a Limited form of Clairsentience, or perhaps the Adjacent Sense Modifier." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 It seems like you're stretching the definition of the head to include the neck (pun intended) ... as none of the citations above are definitive. That said, your earlier 6e2 p65 citation caused me to look around, and I think I have found something definitive that DOES support your assertion: Per 6e2 p67, "If the campaign uses Hit Locations or the character specifies an attack against Location 5 (the Head), a Grab maneuver hitting Location 5 (the Head) and involving a Squeeze both does extra damage (Head locations take 2x STUN and BODY from Normal Damage attacks) and cuts off the target’s breath, making him unable to shout or talk (see the rules below for Chokes). A Grab maneuver hitting Locations 3 and 4 does the extra damage, but doesn’t cut off the victim’s breath with a Squeeze." Per 6e2 p84, "Choke: This maneuver allows a character to grasp an opponent’s head and neck and inflict NND damage." Per 6e2 p84, "Choke works just like a normal Grab for purposes of determining whether the victim escapes (for example, he gets an immediate Casual STR roll to break free and take no damage, and the OCV/DCV penalties for Grabbing/being Grabbed apply). However, it only immobilizes one “limb” — the head." So, it would seem I've found some RAW for you to support your assertion that the head/neck are somewhat interchangeable. Specifically, Location 5 of the 'Head' Hit Location is apparently representative of the neck, since that is what must be grabbed and squeezed in order to Choke someone. When you add the above citations to your earlier citation from 6e2 p65 ("The head counts as a limb because a character can use it to attack") ... then there is (finally) a compelling case for the Head (Hit Location) being a limb (per the RAW you cited) ... and the neck being part of that limb since the Choke maneuver applies to the head and neck ... and Hit Location 5 (in a range of 3-5 ... per the Hit Location Table on 6e2 p109) appears to represent what one chokes (likely the neck) when performing a standard Choke maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 2, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Surrealone said: Please show me where it says 'neck' within the text you quoted... Seriously? Look how chokehold is described. I can put you in a headlock and that’s NOT going to cut off your breathing the neck will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted January 2, 2018 Report Share Posted January 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said: Seriously? Look how chokehold is described. I can put you in a headlock and that’s NOT going to cut off your breathing the neck will. I guess you didn't read my previous post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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