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Black Rose

Proportional Result And Margin Of Success

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I really like the idea of the Proportional Advantage and Proportional Result Limitation (APG 139-40 and 144-45), at least as I think they work. The way it's described is using a werewolf (who gets stronger during the full moon) and Sir Gwethon of Arthurian legend (who was apparently cut from my copy, but gets stronger the closer to noon it is, IIRC). Essentially, I like the idea of sliding effect.

 

In this case, what I'm looking for is how to represent the ability (specifically for a weather control spell) to increase the potency of effect/area covered/duration of the spell based on the margin of success of your skill roll. Kind of like Time Limit can have "5 Minutes, +1 Minute per point of margin of success", but more '+/-1 Temperature Level or Wind Level, +1 per point of margin of success", or "8 km radius, +1 km per point of margin of success", or "1 Hour, +1 Hour per point of margin of success". The more successful your roll is, the more effect you can have, and you could prioritize certain parts, such as having the area covered be the most important, and then the strength of effect, and finally duration.

 

This is the base write-up I'm starting from (yanked from Champions Powers and altered slightly)

Weather Magic: Change Environment (±10 Temperature Levels), Varying Combat Effects; Area Of Effect (16m Radius; +¾), MegaArea (1m = 1 km broad and wide; +1), Varying Effect (+1); Can Only Alter Existing Weather, Not Create Weather (-¼), Extra Time (time required depends on the severity of the change in the weather the character wants to create, but minimum of 1 Hour -3), No Range (-½), Requires A Roll (Power: Celestial Hekau; -1 per 20 AP; -¼). AP/RC: 150/30

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Surely this is just a compound power with sliding rolls for effect (with the GM agreeing that all the effect rolls are resolved with one throw of the dice).


So

 

8D6 Lightning Strike

  +2D6 Lightning strike (14 or less)

  +2D6 Lightning strike (13 or less)

  +2D6 Lightning strike (12 or less)

  +2D6 Lightning strike (11 or less)

  +2D6 Lightning strike (10 or less)

  +2D6 Lightning strike (9 or less)

  +2D6 Lightning strike (8 or less)

 

This is a bit of a simplified roll for example purposes, you could make it more complex with skills etc.  The character is able to reliably throw an 8D6 Lightning bolt.  On a roll of the dice additional power gets added.  On an 11 the lightning bolt is 16D6, on a 14 it is 10D6 and on 8 or less it is 22D6 - be careful of this guy....

 

You can work out the skill rolls and provide a similar range with all the modifiers you need making each additional damage bonus cheaper than the previous one but the build itself is pretty simple.

 


Doc

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Assuming the power has the same list of Advantages and Limitations regardless of the "scale of success", then it is probably easiest to take Doc's approach, but just write it down as a single Limited Power limitation ("Skill Roll Scales Effect -1/2" or whatever is closest to the actual math) on the maximum possible level of effect.

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@Doc Democracy if it were just an attack, that'd be fine. Actually, I love builds like that, and except for the complication of seeing it on a sheet, I prefer it for most things (especially spells). In this case, though, the idea is that, instead of one effect (e.g., lightning bolt) that gets bigger the better the roll, you've got multiple variable effects (how big, how much weather change, how long does it last).

I think I'm going to have to just go with a Multipower, with variable access to the base pool depending on the MoS of the roll; the better the roll, the more options (more AoE, greater CE potency, more points in Long-Lasting, etc...) available.

I wanted to be able to throw all the spells into a limited VPP, but I guess that's not viable here.

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Hmmm...

 

Might Autofire possibly be of use? That already has a "more effect the better your success roll" mechanic. Have to think on that.

 

Actually, looking at your weather spell, it does a fair job already. If you lose the penalty for active points on the requires a roll and replace it with a custom limitation along the lines of "active points depends on success roll" I think you'd end up with what you want.

 

Flipping the -1 per 20 points on its head, make it 20 active points per number succeeded by. That feels fair to me and is clearly in line with an existing mechanic.

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10 hours ago, Black Rose said:

@Doc Democracy if it were just an attack, that'd be fine. Actually, I love builds like that, and except for the complication of seeing it on a sheet, I prefer it for most things (especially spells). In this case, though, the idea is that, instead of one effect (e.g., lightning bolt) that gets bigger the better the roll, you've got multiple variable effects (how big, how much weather change, how long does it last).

I think I'm going to have to just go with a Multipower, with variable access to the base pool depending on the MoS of the roll; the better the roll, the more options (more AoE, greater CE potency, more points in Long-Lasting, etc...) available.

I wanted to be able to throw all the spells into a limited VPP, but I guess that's not viable here.

 

I saw my mistake as soon as I posted but was at work and had no chance to come back to it.

 

I think it is possible but you get a bit into hand-wavy territory.  You could quite easily have a table showing the strength of the power growing as you get a better roll, though it would grow in a very predictable way.  If you wanted to be funky, have six different ways for the power to grow in strength - then use 4D6, the fourth dice to choose which growth pattern gets used...

 

All depends on how much drama you want.

 

Choose the base effect - that gets bought normally

Choose a greater effect  (subtract the cost of the base effect from the cost of the greater effect and apply a roll limitation on the remainder)

Choose a greater effect II (subtract the cost of the base effect from the cost of the greater effect and apply a greater roll limitation on remainder)

....etc

 

It could end up quite bureacratic or it can end up adding to the excitement of the roll depending on your and your players wishes and facility with the rules...

 

Doc

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Again, I agree with Doc. If these spells are to have complicated dynamics according to degree of success, then creating a table/chart (for each such spell) that clearly describes what you get for each level of success will make using these spells a whole lot easier. The up-front design time will be substantial, but I don't think there is an easy way to turn it into a "system", i.e., an easy algorithm that produces valid combinations of advantages, limitations, DCs, etc., on the fly for you.

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There’s a fairly easy way to do this, actually. Your build is fine, you have two options to finish it (as always, this is my design, your opinion/mileage may vary).

 

Option 1: Do your core build, then add the adder “up to X power based on result, Limitation: +1 per point roll succeeds. (-1/2)” Now the effect is paid for, with a limitation that makes sense and the upper limit can be expanded.

 

Option 2: Add a straight Advantage based on the cost of the base power, for example, +1/4 for 5 point powers, +1/2 for 10, +3/4 for 15. You may have to do some math until you find the balance that works for you, and it is custom, where version 1 is more traditionally canon, but it will give you scaling while keeping powers properly costed and consistent. So to AD&D at you a moment, and knowing that no effect can more than double the base, a 4d6 RKA Lightning Bolt that gets a +3/4 Advantage will need some hefty Limitations to be affordable, but the results on a good Power Skill roll would be spectacular.

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